NA Is A Movement Now

Two years ago on the show, we said NA was not a trend, it was a movement. We were right. Today on the show, we are going to talk to Dana Bonelli again from the wine company about what has changed since 2024, how to strengthen your NA program, and what's trending next. You are going to be surprised at who's drinking NA and how they're drinking N, in addition to what people are looking for next and how you can continue to strengthen this really important revenue stream because when Dana presents the numbers on how big this category is, if you are not involved, you're going to want to be ACF.

Who We Help And How

Welcome to the Restaurant Leadership Podcast, where we coach independent multi-unit restaurant operators to build systems that drive profitability and reclaim time so they can scale with confidence and spend their time and energy where they want to, not where they have to. I'm your host, Kristen Marvin, restaurant coach and author of Multi-unit Mastery. If you are an independent restaurant owner managing multiple locations, you know the chaos that comes with growth. Inconsistent execution across your restaurants, managers who won't take ownership, constantly answering questions your team should already know the answers to. You're stuck in your current role, but you want to be playing a bigger strategic role as you scale. You don't have the right leaders in place, or you keep losing them. And you're not sure how to find great people and actually keep them around. We work with passionate independent restaurant owners who found success with their first few locations and are ready to scale strategically. Our clients aren't looking to just survive expansion. They want to thrive through it. They're committed to developing strong leaders and creating exceptional guest experiences. Through the independent restaurant framework that we teach in multi-unit mastery, we coach independent restaurant groups to move from chaos to confidence by focusing on three pillars people, process, and profit. You can grab a gifted copy of the book at irfbook.com. On this show, we bring you real coaching conversations, leadership strategies, and the frameworks that you need to lead like a CEO instead of operating like a worn-out manager. And here's the thing: coaching has changed our clients' businesses and can change yours too. If you've never experienced what it's like to have someone in your corner who actually gets the restaurant world, we'd love to connect. We offer one-on-one and group coaching. Head to kristenmarvin.com slash contact for a complimentary coaching session. And let's talk about what's possible for your restaurant group.

Dana Returns And The Numbers

Dana, it's been two years. It's been a while. I look back, it was two years almost to the day today that we did our first episode on what was happening in the NA space. And it's been our most popular episode that we've done. So yeah. So we're like, we're like, we gotta have Dana back on the show. So thanks for coming back. Super excited today to have you. Um I quit drinking five years ago, September 28th. And so this is, you know, for people that have been following the show, this is a topic and a space I'm super passionate about. I've been loving playing around in this space for five years as a consumer and watching it change. But I'm so we're gonna pull all the amazing information from you today and talk about where this space is going. Because again, we we said two years ago on the show, this is not a trend, people. Yeah, we did. This is a movement, right? Look at us, we were right. I love it when you say that. It feels so good.

Look at you, look at me.

We got and it's backed by facts. That's amazing. Um, well,

Who Buys NA And Why

let's dive in. Let's talk a little bit about who is drinking NA today and how are they drinking it?

Yeah, uh, well, apparently everybody uh that has a bank account continues to purchase it. Um, you know, when we look at metrics in alcohol sales, we look at uh the cohort of uh you know people who are over the age of 21, so legal drinking age consumers. And then of course, we, you know, as marketers and salespeople love to break out the generational cohorts that um cross uh all the demographics and then kind of drill down on what are they doing? Um, what do they have in common, and then what are they doing individually from a generational standpoint? Can we can we put our finger on any kind of trend lines inside of those generational pockets of consumers? Um so yeah, the the industry, adult non-alcoholic, uh, crested one billion in revenue at the beginning of this year. Um by comparison, you have the European Union, which crossed a $2 billion threshold. Um, you know, and we can talk later on about what that market is doing as a sort of a key performance indicator, you know, in terms of where we're headed in the United States. But um the dollars are real. Um, you know, for context, and I think this helps kind of certainly helps me frame up um how we got here and where we're going. Um, the total valuation of the United States um beverage alcohol market uh for uh 2025 was about $1 billion in revenue, and that would be across all channels of sales, so on-premise, off-premise, etc. Um, and so at 1 billion, um, adult non-alcoholic is uh 1%. And the latest punditry on this um forecasts that by 2027, end of 2027, business um the adult non-alcoholic market in the United States will be valued at $4 billion.

Holy cow.

So, yeah, I mean to answer your question, it doesn't seem to um, you know, the category is ubiquitous, it has um received broad acceptance uh by adults uh in the United States, and then of course, you know, in Europe we can see what they're doing. Um, I think the place for these beverages has really been normalized and are uh really occasion-driven now. So we've really shifted away uh the narrative, um definitely in my work in the day-to-day, but I think that I I think this is true across the board that um you know we've shifted away from a sort of binary type of thinking around consumers being uh people who are drinking a lot, so the you know, the extreme end of that would be let's just say it, drunk, and then the other side of that pendulum would be sober, right? Um, but of course we know that there is like this whole space in between all this daylight where you have consumers behaving as they do, and I think as an industry, both for beverage alcohol but also for adult not non-alcoholic, because the two work in tandem, you know, the conversation around that binary has has evolved.

So that's cool. That's cool. I mean, it we're we're trying to catch up to the EU, but what you said about it going from one to four percent in just a matter of a a year here, right? I mean, it's explosive and it's been so fun to just see. I mean, you feel it, you see it when you walk into stores. I mean, there are just shelves and shelves. It it feels a little overwhelming, I'm assuming. I I'm wondering if we're ever gonna see, like, I'm sure there are the well, not alcoholic liquor stores and you know, things like that, but it's it's been fun to watch the category explode. I think we still have a lot of um work to do. I went into a really cool, funky, trendy uh restaurant a couple days ago, or maybe it was a bar, I'm not sure. And uh I walked in and immediately looked at the list looking for the alcohol. I'm so used to seeing the category on the menu of non-alc, and I had to, and I looked up and said, What are your non-alcoholic options? And he went straight for beer and I said, What about wines or cocktails? And and I got the old, oh, I can make you something. I was like, No, I'm good, I'll just take a Coke soda.

Yeah, becoming the exception to the rule, right? Now that you're gonna have that experience out in the wild. Um, you know, in my market, Minnesota, we've just seen um a wholesale embrace of the category, um, you know, people really asking for help and advice and counsel and from, you know, I sit in the chair of a, you know, I'm a distributor, right? You know, so um, but they've leaned on us to help, you know, coach them and give them advice on um, you know, how to add value to their menus and and also meet this moment. Um, you know, interestingly, I will just I don't want to um paint too big of a picture. So we are seeing that the the trend line is decelerating slightly, um, but the growth is still staggering. Um, you know, 2026 is projected to finish around a 20% increase, whereas the year prior was a 35% increase. But that's just because the base of business has broadened, and you know, that that revenue number is a real real revenue number now to um to look at. So totally normal, but the growth is still explosive, just to say.

So

Fastest-Growing NA Categories

yeah, I mean, in episode 55, when we talked about this the first time, you you took a real we took a real strong deep dive into all the different categories within the EA space. And I'm curious if you like what's your sense or data behind which categories are really growing? Is it beer? Is it non- is it wine? Is it um mocktails, cocktails? I don't even know what we're calling it these days.

Yeah, um, so you know, let's just let's just cover all the categories. Let's hopefully I can remember them all. Of course, non-alcoholic beer, the OG of adult non-alcoholic, a 15-year-old product, right? Um, that has ultimately been the pace car for decades, continues to be the leader in this space. And I think um, again, the the sort of KPI we can all watch, um, but it has inserted itself as this occasion beverage, uh, especially you know, as a beverage that is a a cognate for the real the real thing, um, so effectively, um, and the products just keep getting better. Um, so it, you know, it really has shined a bright light on um adult non-alcoholic and like the potential for adult non-alcoholic um in the eyes of consumers. Uh, maybe gives them, you know, it's the most successful, it's one of the easier products to create a dupe on because you're starting with something low ABV and then you know either lowering it or removing it entirely. Um, but beer is number one by far and away. Okay, so beer just continues to be explosive. Um, we know that the craft beer industry has been um you know suffering for a long time. There was probably a lot of saturation on the market. I'm not an expert on the beer industry, but um you know, craft beer has struggled to maintain growth over the years, and so for many, many microbreweries, um, but also the big guys, um, the revenue and volume that they are getting off of non-alcoholic beer has been a lifesaver for many. It has also allowed them to drive a lot of innovation and understand consumers much more than they've ever been able to in the past. So that you know, beer, just keep your eye on the ball with non-alcoholic beer. It's fascinating. Um, you know, I think it also just, and this is maybe just my opinion, but has the most broad acceptance. Um, yeah, by virtue of the fact that it's been around forever. Um, hey, non-alcoholic beer is even older than I am, you know, so it's been out there for a long time, um, been you know, part of um everyday culture for consumers for quite a while. Um, but you know, there's that piece. But I think the the innovation that we've seen inside of the industry has just been phenomenal. Um, I just can't say enough good things about it. I have a ton of respect for the beer industry for doing this. Um, so there's that piece. Um, behind that, you see a lot of ready-to-drink non-alcoholic cocktails uh driving a ton of momentum in this space. Um, and that's kind of uh buttressed by non-alcoholic spirits. Um, both of these subcategories have seen a lot of growth, um, a lot of innovation. Now, of course, there are hundreds of brands now on the market, unlike you know, two years ago when we were talking okay, were there plenty of brands? Sure, but not like today. Uh so it seems like everybody's got you know a piece of the action here. So that's been um a really positive uh growth driver for the category. Um, non-alcoholic wine, uh wow, has that changed quickly? Um talk about technology improving. We're seeing you know much higher quality the alcoholized wines on the market. We're seeing really exciting wine alternatives on the market, you know, something to replace the wine occasion, as it were. Um, so that has been a wildly successful piece of innovation for the industry as well. I predict this will just continue to improve and improve and improve as the years go by. Um, you know, you see the biggest of the bigs in this space and like all the little guys now trying to get a piece of this as well. Um, you know, we may have talked about on our last conversation, but um, there is a you know an oversupply of wine right now on the market, and this certainly, you know, de-alcoholizing it and then putting it on the market as a zero ABB product solves for that, you know, oversupply of wine. Um, so it has also been a positive source of revenue and also way for wineries to engage with new consumers that they weren't reaching before. I think also from a generational standpoint, um, it helps the wine industry get into a conversation with younger people, whether they are Gen Zers or younger millennials who just don't have a relationship with wine for whatever reason. So that has been a successful path of engagement. Um, and then you have, of course, all of the functional products on the market that you know fall under the umbrella of adult beverage because we really don't want people under 21 consuming these products. And functional is sort of the pinnacle of innovation inside of adult non-alcoholic, and it has been wildly successful. You see all the generational cohorts sort of embracing functional, um, which is very interesting. Um so you know it's a it's a broad brush, there's a lot happening, but those are kind of the big buckets that I would speak to. Of course, there are other smaller things happening inside the space, but

The Rise Of Mixed Ordering

yeah.

So talk a little bit about how people are mixing, because I when we talked before, I was really surprised at some of the stats that you threw out about how many people are actually drinking are drinking non-alcohol that are also drinking alcohol. So we're seeing people mix uh both at home and in restaurants.

Yeah, this is so interesting. Um, you know, we thought maybe I think in our last conversation that maybe this was more trend driven or like a flash in the pan, but turns out um, you know, here we are a couple years later. No, uh, you when you say mixing, it's just this um sort of normalizing the occasion where people are um you know pulling back on the amount of alcohol they're consuming. Um, and I know this stat has been you know banted around the industry a lot, but 94% of people who purchase adult non-alcoholic also purchase and consume alcohol. So, you know, this category is not for folks who are um in recovery, right? It's just for for anybody who finds the occasion use. And occasion use we do see um, again, from a generational standpoint, a little like people engaging with adult non-alcoholic for different reasons. Like baby boomers, when you survey them, will say, like, well, I'm not drinking today because I'm the designated driver. Or you'll talk to a Gen Xer and they're gonna tell you, and again, this is just based on you know, focus groups and different surveys that have come in through um, you know, the big outlets that gather this kind of data, IRI, etc. But um, the Gen Xer might say to you, you know, I'm just moderating, or I'm taking a month off, or I'm taking a week off, whatever they're doing. And then with younger folks, the narrative is more commonly that they um just have a different occasion um based on a day-to-day, um, etc. But um let me answer your question. Um, yeah, it is completely the norm now where somebody will pull up to the bar or sit down at the table at the restaurant and order across A and A, right? Like they are they're gonna toggle through the menu. So maybe they have two alcoholic drinks and one non-alcoholic. They have, you know, whatever, you know, whatever they're doing. Um, but this idea of mixing across the categories has become super common. And when we talk to our restaurant uh customers, they confirm this back to us um all day long, and they're of course pleased that they are continuing to drive revenue, you know, in their stores by not just bringing the glass of water with lemon or club soda right to the table. Um, and it you know, it increases the ticket price. Um, so this very common, we see it in retail as well, where the mixed cart is normal now

Building Menus With NA And Low ABV

as well.

So we talked to so many operators that we coach around um strengthening, strengthening their revenue streams, right? And this has become a it's been a revenue stream forever, but it's becoming so the possibilities that potential, like you talked about with the size of the category now, is um it's it feels like it's something that's just screaming at operators to embrace. And um, you mentioned earlier that a lot of people reach out to you to say, you know, help me add some value to the venue here. I'm curious about what advice you give them.

Uh so you know with my SEALs team, one big conversation that we've really been focused on, um, especially this year, um, is creating um, you know, not just adult non-alcoholic alcoholic options on the menu, but also low ABV options, sort of a third space on the menu. So when we consult with our restaurant owners and operators, um, we're really keen to bring both of those conversations um forward because both spaces offer a potential um occasion use for that that customer that they're you know trying to create awesome hospitality for. So, you know, that has kind of been the evolution of, you know, a couple years ago, three years ago, we were selling like the value proposition of putting adult non-alcoholic on the menu. And you know, some folks were resistant to it, or like, I'll never do that because my customer doesn't want it, or this is the way it is in my four walls, to you know, please help us. We feel like we're we've been caught, you know, on the back foot here and we need to catch up. My servers are bummed out that they're you know not upselling their tickets because we don't have good options, we don't know how to RD. You know, what can you do for us to accelerate this? So we got really good at like helping them build that adult non-alcoholic space, but now it's evolved um into that low ABV part of the menu as well because there are so many awesome products on the market now. Um, you know, speaking to wine in particular, um, you know, dry low ABV wines, uh, so these are netting out around 9% alcohol. So this would allow the consumer who is uh maybe gonna switch between one NA drink and one fully alcoholic drink to just having two low ABV drinks because they're trying to net out at a certain level of consumption. That evening. So, this has been a really um reinvigorated conversation because now wine has you know a more interesting part of this conversation. Low ABV cocktails have been around forever, and of course, sessionable beer is again the original model. Um, you know, that light low ABV beer. We we have all danced that dance at a ball game, or you know, you're out in hot weather at a concert, like you know better than to have like the high ABV IPA, right? Um, so people understand this, is my point. So nurturing that part of the beverage program has also kind of where this has progressed, if that

Packaged Versus House-Made Drinks

makes sense.

Yeah, 100%. I think uh one of the things that I um heard a lot, you know, again, uh I have heard a lot over the last two years is you know, people saying, I don't want to buy anything packaged in the NA space. Uh we just we're just gonna produce something on our own. We're gonna come up with two or three cocktails, right? We heard that a lot. It's like, well, okay, let's look at the cost difference between the two, but now all we're talking about, especially in our market here in Denver, is labor, labor, labor, labor, labor. Totally. So I am seeing a lot more restaurants go towards more packaged because there is so so much opportunity and that they're absolutely delicious. The consistency is there, and they're saving, they're saving on labor.

They are, and I I think that um, like I love the sentiment behind, you know, we do everything by hand here, and I think certainly in the you know, the best restaurants in the United States, especially those that are farm to table and they have you know specific core values around you know why they do things, like I I respect that, and some of them know how to do this, right? But it does come at great expense. Um, the RD process can be long, it can there can be a lot of waste, a lot of like time on the clock, all the things. And you know, the beauty of what's happening in the adult non-alt um space is that you know you're getting um so much innovation around complex flavors that are really hard to make consistently behind a bar. Uh, we're also seeing a lot more single serve products on the market, which is of course ideal for restaurants because there's no waste. So, you know, I think it's it's about striking the balance between, you know, maybe you have something that you do in-house that you're just exceptionally proud of and that you're known for, um, and is sort of like a natural extension of your, you know, your food venue, and like that the customer has come to expect that level of care and um you know persistence behind that product being really bespoke and something that you know it's almost proprietary, right? Yeah, um, but combining it with other excellent products that are on the market and just like ready to be opened and poured. So um I don't think there's like one way to do it. I just do encourage people to really explore their options before they like sort of um you know create a philosophy around this because I I think they'd be pretty surprised and impressed by what's out there.

Yeah, I've drank a lot of homemade non-alcoholic drinks across restaurants, and I will tell you, they are some of them have been really sweet or really bitter or just full of juice or whatever. And when I sit down at a restaurant that I love, that I know the food is amazing, the quality is amazing, love the stuff, love the decor. When someone hands me a canned um a canned mocktail or cocktail, I am so pleased because I know that the quality is going to be there, and it just totally makes my experience so much better.

Elevating NA With Proper Service

Totally. And I I think that you know, maybe this goes without saying, but sometimes we do find um we're the distributor for Riedel in Minnesota, so we're always talking about glassware, and so sometimes elevating the guest experience by putting, you know, the product in a really beautiful glass and adding a garnish, and maybe you've got the nice clear ice really will elevate something, you know, from being like the experience of I mean, this has happened to all of us. Like I personally speaking, when I'm sitting in a white tablecloth restaurant, I don't want to drink something directly out of an aluminum can or a bottle. Yeah, I would like it in a glass and serve properly, but just taking the care of those steps um, I think also confirms in the consumer's mind why they are paying what you're asking, and then it reaffirms the willingness to pay the price on the menu because of giving them that elevated experience. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Things make a big difference.

They do, and I I was in a Spanish restaurant a couple months ago, and they gave me exactly what you said of I ordered a gen non-alcoholic gen and tonic. I got a beautiful stemmed glass, I got a huge, round, perfect cube, and a beautiful lemon garnish. And yeah, it was $14. I get it, it was delicious.

Yes, and they but there's something else going on there, they didn't put you at the kids' table.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, and um so we've come light years, right? And three, four years um for that guest experience in this you know particular space.

So yeah, you mentioned um low alk when it comes to wine, and um, I'm I was at a distributor the other day for an event, and um one of the bartenders showed me low alk in a spirit. And and I so I wonder, do you are you seeing a low, you think there'll be a low alk cocktail category?

Wellness Data GLP-1 And Transparency

Yeah, I do. Um, and a lot of that is driven uh by you know wellness and health considerations uh with a lot of the low ADB wines they're built being billed as uh lower calorie. And so we'll see that as well on the spirit side. Um, you know, and I think it's just a generally speaking, a move towards more transparency around um beverage alcohol and consumer information. You know, it's interesting, it's a regulated industry, but there's not a tremendous amount of consumer information as we know. Um, so people are very curious. They're pulling back the curtain here and saying, well, wait, how many calories are in this? I've never stopped and thought about it, right? But lo and behold, there are quite a few. So they want to know and then they want to make their decisions accordingly. Uh, you know, of course, health and wellness trend is huge uh people wearing um, you know, digital wearable, they're collecting metrics about their bodies, so they understand you know the cause and effect correlation when they consume a lot of alcohol and perhaps wreck a night asleep, whatever. Um, so people are really you know showing consumers are showing that they want to know these things about these products, and so a lot of the marketing behind low ABB is focused on that calorie content, um, and also you know, um, I mean, again, beer has been doing this for a long time. Yeah, like it's all the beer playbook, it's all there, but yeah, we're starting to see that copy-pasted on whether it's low ABB spirits or wine, etc. But just more transparency in general. Do you do you think GLP ones are playing into this at all? Absolutely, yeah, 100%. Yeah, where wearables um for wearable tech and uh GLP ones are having a huge impact on on this. And you know, um statistically, um, in the recorded history of this data, you know, uh it's the lowest um percentage of Americans of legal drinking age seeing that they are consuming alcohol um right now, you know, and okay, how we got here, there are a lot of different factors, um, of course, um economic um health and wellness, but the GLP1 piece is huge. I mean, I think it's more than 30% of people over 40 take a GLP1, and this reduces the desire to um consume alcohol and all kinds of other things, right? You know, so yes, it's made a huge impact, and so we we know I don't think anyone's like imagining this is happening. I think it's been pretty well confirmed.

So yeah, that's awesome. Yay for us as a society of just focusing on health and wellness. It's great. I love

What Europe Signals For The US

that. Um, you mentioned earlier about some of the the EU KPIs and and what's going on in the EU that we should be keeping an eye on.

Yeah, great question. Um, I mean, I can't say I'm a total expert on this. Uh went to a year ago this month, I went to Bar Convent Berlin, which is the biggest spirits trade show in the world. Um, it's held every year in the city of Berlin and Germany. Um, and what was most interesting to me was the volume of non-alcoholic products at this Spirits trade show that had just been interwoven in uh with all the the Spirits brands. So it was um standalone non-alcoholic producers with their own booth, or uh, you know, the brands that had line extensions um of non-alcoholic. And my takeaway on this experience, um, and albeit this is a year ago, but also just being in Europe at that time, was just that they are a couple, three years ahead of the United States from a trend perspective, just the sort of societal acceptance of these products and um the occasion use being interwoven in their day-to-day. Um, so I don't think that's like a profound insight. I think they're just kind of ahead of us. I live in the Midwest, so I'm used to like trends on the East and West Coast, like they've been in here like two years after New York City gets the memo, then I like you know, wait a year or two, and then all of a sudden we're doing what they were doing. So I think with something like that, I could be wrong. Uh, but it just seems to be a societal acceptance of the products um and an enthusiasm for them, um, perhaps driven by a younger generation of consumer. Yeah.

I love it.

Surprises And What Comes Next

Dana, so much knowledge and and information. Really, really appreciate you sharing this um with listeners today. I'd love to know before we jump off here, like what's the biggest thing that surprised you about this category?

Oh my gosh. Um surprise me. Uh honestly, it has been the um just the the spirit of innovation in it has has just can been thrilling. Um, just when I think we've kind of like peaked, you know, some new cool brand will hit the market, or I'll see a company that I think um is very set in its ways, an alcohol company set in its ways, like get involved, but not just in kind of a copycat way, but in a really interesting way. So that I I just I've just been yeah, really blown away by the spirit of innovation um and what I've seen, you know, abroad, but also in the US. Um, I love that you see like the national brands out there, but then when you get into regional pockets or even at a state level, you have all these really cool boutique brands happening, um, and that it's kind of run the gamut. So there are you know, there's there's quickly the the boutique side, which is like I think to be expected, but also the commoditized side. Um, you know, it's been a fascinating and quick stroke of innovation.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's right. Like even with as much knowledge as I have, I I am surprised by it, honestly.

So that's great. What if what's the one like non-alcoholic product, cocktail, whatever, wine that you're excited to see next?

Ooh, what am I excited to see next? Well, I mean, I know some things I can't talk about right now. Um I've almost blurted something out and then I might get a call from somebody if I'm that I know. You know, there are some really exciting um functional ready-to-drinks uh that I am aware of that are gonna hit the market early next year that I'm very excited about. Um, again, I think uh anyone who's moving into that single serve space, like they are gonna be really unlocking a door for customers because the the barrier to entry is so low when somebody is parting with that five or six bucks at the cash register, like you know, twelve dollars in the restaurant environment, and they can try something new for the first time. Um, so yeah, that the functional ready to drink space is kind of what I have my eye on and I'm most excited about. I think the flavor profiles are the most complex. Um, I think anyone who is trying not to be a cognate of you know something we've all been drinking for hundreds of years is gonna be more successful. So that's what I'm watching.

Final Takeaways And Goodbye

I love it. Awesome. Dana, thanks so much again for your time and knowledge. Really, really appreciate it. And that's gonna do it for us on the show this week. We will see you very soon.

Thanks, Kristen.