SPEAKER_01: 0:07

If you're having challenges with staffing shortages in your restaurant, we are going to offer you some solutions today that are proven and they're working in restaurants and other hospitality sectors. Today I am joined by Michelle Pasco, who is an author, podcaster, and who focuses on leadership and customer service excellence in all facets of the hospitality industry. She's joining us from New South Wales, Australia, and it's incredible to see that some of the pain points that we're experiencing here in the US are similar across the pond, which is amazing. We are going to talk about today how some of the assumptions that you may be making about your staff may not be the right assumptions and that may be negatively impacting your behavior and the decisions that you're making for your team. We're also going to talk a lot about Gen Z and this group mentality and how you can use that as a motivator to help them show up for their shifts and perform better and take care of themselves and the guests and the staff. We're also going to talk about three major impacts that Michelle and I are seeing that Gen Z is having on the future of the industry and where things are going. If you would like more insights into how to attract and retain Gen Z talent, tune in to episode 78 of the show here. I hope you enjoy this podcast. Welcome to the Restaurant Leadership Podcast, where we coach independent multi-unit restaurant operators to build systems that drive profitability and reclaim time so they can scale with confidence and spend their time and energy where they want to, not where they have to. I'm your host, Kristen Marvin, restaurant coach and author of Multi-unit Mastery. If you are an independent restaurant owner managing multiple locations, you know the chaos that comes with growth. Inconsistent execution across your restaurants. Managers who won't take ownership. Constantly answering questions your team should already know the answers to. You're stuck in your current role when you want to be playing a bigger strategic role as you scale. You don't have the right leaders in place or you keep losing them. And you're not sure how to find great people and actually keep them around. We work with passionate independent restaurant owners who found success with their first few locations and are ready to scale strategically. Our clients aren't looking to just survive expansion. They want to thrive through it. They're committed to developing strong leaders and creating exceptional guest experiences. Through the independent restaurant framework that we teach in Multi-unit Mastery, we coach independent restaurant groups to move from chaos to confidence by focusing on three pillars: people, process, and profit. You can grab a gifted copy of the book at irfbook.com. On this show, we bring you real coaching conversations, leadership strategies, and the frameworks that you need to lead like a CEO instead of operating like a worn-out manager. And here's the thing: coaching has changed our clients' businesses and can change yours too. If you've never experienced what it's like to have someone in your corner who actually gets the restaurant world, we'd love to connect. We offer one-on-one and group coaching. Head to kristenmarvin.com slash contact for a complimentary coaching session and let's talk about what's possible for your restaurant group. Michelle, what would make this an extraordinary conversation for you today?

SPEAKER_00: 4:09

Because I think the opportunity to share both our insights on what it's like to be in the hospitality industry, not only for being a leader, but also managing teams, being leaders in our own businesses, helping those that are in the hospitality industry, and seeing it from both sides, you know, both from the team member, you know, who really wants to have a lot of fun and go out with their friends, while the you know owner of the business or the senior managers are wanting their teams to be there at critical times of the year. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01: 4:45

Yeah, give give me a little bit of insight and give the listeners a little bit of insight into some of those pain points that you're experiencing right now with your clients.

SPEAKER_00: 4:54

Yeah, so here in Australia, we have got a few short weeks uh till Christmas, and being summer in the you know, the hemisphere that we're in here in the southern hemisphere, this is our busiest time. So many of our schools have already broken up. Uh, and then so they've got nearly eight weeks of summer holidays. And so many of our venues, if not all of them, maybe they only make um destination venues at this time of year, they're absolutely crowded. But also, people are trying to find well, what are we going to do with the children, as well as how are we going to entertain family and friends, and so our venues, whether they're hotels, whether they're clubs, which is like your mini casinos um over there, as well as restaurants, are full to capacity with our wonderful members and guests. But what happens is the team who uh, you know, four generations now in the workplace, are thinking to themselves, I'd really like to have that Saturday night off. And so what I'd like to look at with our discussion today, Kristen, is how do we engage them to understand by them not turning up for their shift? You know, you've got six people on it's gonna be a busy Saturday night, and then one of them decides they'd rather go out with their friends or they just don't feel like it because they'd had a big night the night before, and they just don't show up. And it's that understanding that they're letting down the team, and it's not just, oh, well, they're sick, because of course, you know, sickness happens and you know things in life, but when they consciously make the decision not to turn up because they've got a better offer, that's where it's really disappointing because it impacts not only on the guests that we're serving, but certainly on the team, and they start to think, well, you know, if you're gonna let me down, then maybe I'll reciprocate and do this next Saturday night. So it can turn into a real spiral. So yeah, that's where I'd love the conversation to go.

SPEAKER_01: 6:48

Yeah, and I love this, Michelle, because you're I have a client in Sydney, Australia, and I have found that a lot of the same pain points with staffing issues, they're they're not, they know no boundaries, right? So they're they're similar in the US, they're in Australia, they exist everywhere, right? We've heard that we've heard call-outs are happening more and more and more uh with this generation. And I think that you know it's so important to just really set clearer expectations than ever before uh with these teams. And I'm curious how you work with your clients on taking a proactive approach to things like staffing shortages.

SPEAKER_00: 7:23

Yes, and so with my clients, they are majority in them in the registered club industry. So to give you an insight that would be similar to your Native American casinos. So, you know, we're looking at some venues that may have six, seven hundred staff, others who may even only have 18 staff. But doesn't matter how big or how small they are, each person is that really important cog in the wheel.

SPEAKER_01: 7:47

Hey there, podcast friends. I hope you're enjoying these impactful conversations and leadership insights I'm bringing you each week. Before we dive back into today's episode, I want to take a moment and reach out and ask a small favor that would go a long way in supporting the show. If you've been loving the content I'm providing, please take a moment to leave a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Not only does it make my day, but it also plays a pivotal role in helping the show grow. Your reviews boost my visibility, attract new listeners, and encourage exciting guests to join me on the mic. So if you want to be part of my show's growth journey, hit that review button and let me know what you think. Thanks a million for being awesome listeners.

SPEAKER_00: 8:35

And so what we're finding now is this connection when they don't want to turn up. So I do a lot of training. Um I love training, and as you can see, I love talking. And I'm going getting back to that golden nugget, particularly with Gen Z, is they love, they have a group mentality, Kristen. You know, very different to all the other generations, uh, where it's always been, you know, just do it yourself, don't ask anybody for help or support. Whereas we see Gen Z, and I always say this in a loving way, you know, tongue-in-cheek, that you won't get a Gen Z person walking into a room unless they're holding the hand of another one. And now, and I'm saying that nicely because they're used to group work at school, group work at university, group work to that social activity, even online with people that they'll never ever may never be able to physically meet. And so what I'm putting into the training and thinking about is instead of going about, well, you know, it's for the business, you've got to come in, you're rusting all this, getting them to see they're letting down their mates, they're letting down that group, that group who support them, um, you know, will who, you know, make sure that they turn up when they're on shift. And so I'm finding that that little tweak in conversations and that headspace, they're starting to realize that, and that it's what they're doing is letting down that team, but also jeopardizing the friendship group that they may also be, you know, connecting with.

SPEAKER_01: 10:01

Yeah, I mean, I'm hearing you say it's really important to tap into, you know, not for just Gen Z, but any uh employee to tap into really what is motivating them to come to work and really helping them understand the deeper level of why they're there, why their position is important, and the way that their behavior impacts not only them, the guest and their team as well.

SPEAKER_00: 10:23

Definitely, yes, because you know it as I said, it becomes that domino effect, doesn't it? Yeah, once one person doesn't show up, then do they do they do that to that person the next time? And of course, you know, I think a lot of times people will give everybody that little bit of grace, that bit of, oh well, you know, they had a bad night. We'll get but when it becomes repeated, and knowing as we do in the hospitality industry, it is a 24-hour, seven-day a week operation. So um it's not just grabbing the shifts that pay better, it's being there for all of the shifts and whatever your roster to. Because you know, a lot of businesses have a two-week roster in advance, so they they know. I think the other thing too, because is they don't seem to understand that they can give let us know if they've got an event coming up. It's it was like it's that last moment. You know, I I was with a client the other week and this chap had emailed, or actually had text messaged the HR manager on a Saturday, which I thought was not that shouldn't be on anyway. Um, I won't be at work on Monday because it's my sister's wedding. Seriously, you didn't know that before, you know, 24 hours. And I don't know whether it's conscious behavior or they just think it just doesn't matter. Yeah, it's odd.

SPEAKER_01: 11:38

Do you work with clients on taking a really proactive approach during the interview process and the hiring process and the onboarding process to, I mean, uh call-outs have never been a non-issue, right, in the industry. They've always happened because of burnout or the holidays or lack of planning, organization, or sickness or whatever, or lack of care. But um, do you think it's important to that the that your clients have a have those conversations during the interview process and during the hiring process?

SPEAKER_00: 12:10

Oh, I think it's it's absolutely critical. And they've always been there, Kristen. I think, you know, but I think in the past it's just been assumed by the interviewer that, hey, it's hospitality. Everybody works on weekends, but we shouldn't assume that. I I don't think they see that connection. So it is going through them, you know, step by step. This is a role that you will need to be here on a Sunday at lunch. This is a role that you will be working on Christmas Day or on a Saturday night, you know. And I think you can you can say it, but you've got to you've got to really inform them of why it's so important that they're there. And it comes back to that team work again. You'll be letting down your buddies. Whereas beforehand, it was that, well, it's a privilege, you're getting a role with us, you know, you're getting a job with us, so you should be happy to be doing these hours. That's not an incentive for people anymore. You know, we've got to we've got to change the conversation when we're hiring them. But yes, to me, it is making that connection between letting down their mates and actually, you know, doing the duty that they're being hired for.

SPEAKER_01: 13:19

Yeah, it's so interesting that you say, you know, that you brought up the word assumption because I'm I'm having so many conversations recently with clients and they are so frustrated because they're having to just repeat the basic little foundational things that they haven't had to train or coach on over the last 10 or 20 years, right? We we know six million people left the industry during the pandemic. We know that many people chose not to come back. And so we've got this new generation of people coming in with less institutional knowledge. And so when, you know, I had a client say to me today, why don't people just understand that when I send an email, they should be responding to the email, right? It's such such a little thing, but it's like we got to break this down. Are our you're on your computer a lot, they're on the floor, right? Have you set an expectation of how frequently they should be checking email? And if you need a response to something, say in the subject line, please respond, because they may think, I read it, I've got the information, I'm good to go, right? So setting those expectations are so so clear these days. Yeah, Chris, and that is probably one of my biggest pet peeves.

SPEAKER_00: 14:28

And I seriously, why don't you just go fetch? Particularly if you're doing a proposal, you know, a client and you send out the proposal, and there's crickets, and you think yourself, did they get it? Is it lost in the ether? You know, and all those have a joke with them. Well, you know, is it hard to just write back, got it? Thanks. Okay. But particularly with your team members, again, it's are they reading emails? Not many young people either need. They're not. So, you know, it's SMS, you know, that these things seem to be attached to their heads 24-7, which it is for all of us, it's not just Gen Z. Uh, and so is that a way to connect with them? And you're right, Kristen, it's setting that expectation when we send you that notification. Can you just send back even if it's a thumbs up, that's all it needs to be. Yeah, at least we know that you've got it. This idea of, well, I've read it, also, or they look at it and they don't open it, when then it also gives them that out of, oh, and I never saw that message. Yeah. Which is another twist.

SPEAKER_01: 15:30

It's, I mean, there's so much changing in the industry right now. Like we we know it's it's never been harder, it's never been more complex, right? With cost of goods and cost of labor, um, all the technology that you know that needs to be in place, the marketing, the competition, you know, everything, guest preferences. And now we've got this new generation coming in that need communication on a whole new level. Like you said, they're they're not checking emails. That, but but text we know text messages are a hundred percent read by pretty much every single person. You know, you and I, I'm sure if we get a spam on something or we get a text message from a friend, it's it's disruptive. It perpetrates whatever we're doing in that moment, right? If we let it, but it's it's read and easily responded to. And I think staff, you know, we're talking here about staff communication overall of what happens when something goes wrong. How do you coach an employee and help them understand the why, which is so important? How do you how do you set them up for success in the beginning so they understand those clear expectations of to be an employee here means this, this is what success looks like, right? But also, I think it's our job as um as you know, former restaurant owner and and operator to help these employees be better on the way out than they came in. And I was fortunate enough to work for two years during the pandemic, where I oversaw seven locations and we had, you know, 90% of our staff were part-time, high high school and college kids. And so none of them were looking at this as a career. Then, you know, of course, if their friends invited them out on a Friday night, um, they were gonna do everything they could in their power to give up their shift, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, but we we had to really put it was a huge error, uh huge issue when I when I started as a regional with the company, and we had to put systems in place to say, look, we know call-outs are gonna happen. We want you to be able to go out and have time, have fun time with your friends. We get that your family might surprise you with a vacation every once in a while. So we put a protocol in place to support them in that, right? And we really put that responsibility and onus on them to say, give us your your request three weeks in advance. Yes. But once that schedule's posted, it's your responsibility to find coverage for those shifts.

SPEAKER_00: 17:51

Yes, yeah. And I think, you know, that's the thing is we're happy for you to let us know if if something's coming up. Just let us know, and then we can roster around it. I I sometimes wonder is it a fear also that they're going to lose the job if they know that we've got to tell you know our boss that we can't work that Saturday night. And I think as bosses, we understand, particularly now, is that we can't just expect anybody to work every single weekend. People need a break. And I think in the past there was always that expectation, well, you just worked on a weekend, you were just hospitality. And now you've got to have that flexibility in your roster system. You can't just assume. And then and let them know, and maybe that's another thing in that conversation when you're recruiting them, and then throughout, you know, the time with them. Well, you know, we know that university holidays are coming up, or we know that these holiday periods are coming up, or you've told us that you know you've got family coming over from overseas, whatever it might be. Perhaps you need to start the conversation as being the employer or the or the leading manager as well, because they don't always know how to start those conversations. And that's why we just get the text, I'm not coming back, or I'm not coming in, because they just don't know how to have that conversation. And and Kristen, you were saying before, you know, we need to show them how to start conversations with us being the leaders in that circumstance, but also with our guests, and the more that we can help them along that journey, because no, many of them, this is of the first entry into the workforce. And let's, you know, let's be honest, Christian. I think there's uh our members and guests, our patrons, our customers, they don't seem to be as nice as they used to be. Everything's all about me, and it's rush, rush, rush. And this idea, I don't know whether you have it in America, I know we've got it in Australia where we constantly have signs up saying, you know, please be nice to our staff. You know, they're doing the best they can, blah, blah, blah. You know, if you argue with them or you're, you know, have poor behavior, you'll be asked to leave. I think that's that's come from COVID. We never had those signs before then. And I think to myself, you know, when you see older people or any generation yelling at a staff member in hospitality, I always butt in and I go, you know, this is their first job. Like, like you can't talk to people like that. So I think that's the same. A lot of them, they don't have that. Uh I know I don't like using that word resilience, but in a sense that they don't, they don't understand that how to handle those situations. So I think we've really got to be there as that supporting leaders. Otherwise, yeah, they just go, they go, Oh, this is just too much. I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_01: 20:27

Yeah, I mean, I I've been on both sides. I've worked with so many people from Gen Z. And and and I think I hear a lot of people kind of blanket and stereotype the generation. I think that that's really sad because we are all individuals. Um, you know, I but I have worked with a lot of Gen Z that were absolutely engaged and excited and people focused and were really careful with guests and patient and took their time and and genuinely wanted to make people's day and do a good job. And that was because we had really specific hiring characteristics that we were looking for and we were very selective about the people that we brought on. Yes. But I I've also worked with people who, you know, you had made a point earlier, maybe they're scared to lose their job. They had no idea that there was even a consequence if they called out for their shift or they stopped being or they weren't consistent. And so again, I think it's it's about teaching people how to be really great employees in for their first job and and wherever in the world, you know, and and not giving them the purple ribbon, uh, right, or not giving them the A when they've come in and done D work, right?

unknown: 21:32

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 21:33

I think there is that uh assumption, well, I've turned up, haven't I? I'm thinking, yes, well, you know, you're breathing, you're fogging up a mirror, but you've there's got to be a little bit more in that. And I think that's where it comes back to the team, not just the you know, the manager or the leader of that team in telling that person what they need to do, but actually the team showing and holding that person accountable. If they're not doing their role correctly, then it's the team to say to them, Come on, you know, I need some extra. Help, or you know, calling them out on poor behaviour or that that lack of team, you know, cohesion. That is important because remember, it's that group around them that they'll listen to perhaps more in some cases than they will the boss. But you're right, there's everybody is different. And I've got some amazing Gen Z people in our workplaces, you know, and really they are, you know, they are the biggest cohort in the next decade, both as employees as well as customers globally. And this is who is going to be coming through and becoming managers. So let's give them the best standing. And Kristen, you're right. For many, it's their first job, and they'll go off and do thousands of other things. They can be become doctors and pilots and whatever they ever want to be. But if we give them a great foundation of hospitality, that is hard work, dealing with a lot of people at different times, you know. Betty can be great at 10 a.m., but at 11 p.m. at night after a few drinks, and she's been in, she can be a totally different person. Yeah, then it gives them a great strong foundation of how to be an employee and even how to be a great person in life as well. I I think hospitality industry is such a great foundation for people.

SPEAKER_01: 23:12

Yeah, we've said it for years. Everyone should work in the restaurant or in the hospitality industry at some point in their life. Yes. So many wonderful skills that you learn. Before we dive deeper into today's topic, I want to share something that's been a game changer for the restaurant owners I work with. You know how we've been talking about building stronger foundations for your restaurant? Well, I've taken everything I teach my coaching clients about creating core values, mission statements, and long-term vision, and I've turned it into three hands-on online courses. These aren't your typical watch and forget courses. Each one walks you through using AI tools like ChatGPT to create the foundational elements every successful restaurant needs. We're talking about core values that actually guide your hiring decisions, mission statements your team can rally behind, and a three-year vision that turns your growth from reactive to strategic. The best part is each course is only$49, or you can grab all three for$99. That's less than what most restaurants spend on a single food delivery order, but it'll give you the clarity to make better decisions for years to come. You can check them out at kristinmarvin.com/slash courses. You can also text me directly in the show notes. There's a link at the top of the show if you want a special promo code to save an additional amount of money on any of the courses, including the bundle. Now let's get back to our conversation. I I'm finding, and I don't know if you are finding this with the clients that you work with, a lot of owners that I work with come to me and say, Kristen, I am because of because of the generation coming in and because there's been so much turnover, I'm exhausted. I've never had to coach this much before. And it's really pulling A, it's testing the systems, it's testing training. It is really putting pressure on leadership development to be at the forefront more than it's ever been before. But it's also putting a lot of pressure on the restaurant owners and pulling them away from the time and energy that they want to spend where they want in the business. And I'm curious if you're seeing that as well.

SPEAKER_00: 25:27

Look, definitely. And you know, coming out of COVID, as you rightly said, we we've lost so many, particularly that middle management group. A group that had either just started on the journey, the career of that management, or even those that have been in a senior position for quite some time. Losing that, and we lost a phenomenal amount of really great people, not only great in the role that they did, but they were really great leaders in identifying the potential in others. And so trying to replace them with people that were, you know, we saw a lot of cannibalization there for a while. It was like, oh wow, they're really good, so I'll go over there and offer them more money and bring them over here. And you know, what I've really been focusing on in you know, particularly in the last five years, is that with the programs that I do is that middle management. And in that sense, it is who are those in your organization now that have got that potential, you know, and maybe just a little flicker. How can we build that into this? Is by developing them and really showing them that you've got the back. But to me, it's really looking at procedures and systems so often, and I'm sure you've heard it time and time again, Kristen. Oh, I'm telling them to do the same thing over and over again. Well, why are you allowing to do that? Where are your boundaries? What have you put in place that you push back and say to them, you know, I you know, they'll come to you and go, Oh, you know, the um the tap, you know, that well, the microphone's not working, you know, when I want to do the raffle call. And you know, okay, fine. Um, have you looked at the you know, the checklist? Have you gone through those? Oh no, because you know, it's just a lot easier just to ask you. Well, you can fall into that trap as we see so many of these burnt-out leaders doing because they just do it instead of showing or putting it back. So a lot of times, you know, I'll say to my guys, just say back to them. You know, that's a you know, I I know that you've come to me with this situation. What have we put in place that you could do? And they'll go, Oh, yes, I could look at that checklist. Okay, go back, have a look at that checklist. And you say it a nice way, you're not being rude. Go back and go through that checklist and just see if you can find that issue. And when they do come back and go, Oh my gosh, I did find it, Christine. You go, oh, that is great. Now they feel, oh my goodness, I've actually achieved something. Because otherwise, you can go in there and just fix it, but it's not showing them anything. And to me, that's where that too many leaders won't delegate because they're thinking it's abdicating the responsibility, or they're just saying to themselves, you know what, it's just a lot easier, it's gonna be faster, and I know it's done right if I do it myself. So they're not showing them. So the younger ones go, well, what's the heck? Why should I bother even looking? Because I'm also just go to them because that they can just do it. So I think we as as leaders, you know, those people, particularly in middle management, they need to stop and think, how can I delegate and and understand it's making them accountable, but it's also growing somebody's potential.

SPEAKER_01: 28:15

Yeah, I love that. I um it takes me back to my operation days where, yeah, same thing. Somebody would come to me and say, Hey, Kristen, where do I find X? And I'd say, Well, that's in the training material. Where does that live? And they'd be like, Oh, the handbook behind the bar, but let's let's go take a peek together real quick, right? And and it I think what I hear a lot from owners is, especially as they're scaling and opening multiple units, is they're like, Kristen, I I cannot ever fully turn off or get away from the restaurants. I'm constantly getting texts and constantly getting emails. And I'm like, well, walk me through a situation. How are you communicating with your team? Exactly like you just said, I said, you're training people that you are the problem solver and not not letting them solve the problems. And what a lot of owners don't understand, especially in the independent world, they see systems as kind of as being corporate. Um, or or like you said, they're afraid to delegate or they don't want to give up that control. But if they could just shift their perspective on understanding that systems are actually a beautiful way to support your team while you're in the building and even more importantly, when you're away.

SPEAKER_00: 29:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 29:18

When they when your team has an opportunity and a resource to go solve their own problem, it builds their confidence, it empowers them, and it gives them something that they can build a habit around to rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat.

SPEAKER_00: 29:32

Yeah. But that habit is so important, but it's setting those boundaries, Kirsten. You know, but we I love these organizations, particularly here in Australia. You know, we've had a lot of church, um, a lot of changes with our uh workplace fairness, and now that we cannot communicate um with our team members after they've left work. And so it's particularly in hospitality, you know, unless the building's burning down on something really important, because we're seeing too often where perhaps managers are texting staff at you know off when not on duty at late at night, or the other is uh, you know, they the staff texting duty managers in particular when they're not on shift. And and to me, it's that's where. So if you if I can give you an example, a duty manager, you know, they're they're looking after that restaurant, that venue. And then a staff member will think to themselves, you know, Kristen's a duty manager tonight, but I really don't get on very well with her. Whereas I really like Michelle. Now, Michelle's not working, but I'm not going to go to Kristen. I'll text Michelle at home, and guess what? There's Michelle, two o'clock in the morning on my phone, answering this text. And we wonder why we are being undermined because we're allowing that as managers. Instead of, you know, Michelle saying, sorry, I'm not at the club, go and speak or at the venue. You need to speak to the duty manager on duty or not answering the text at all. We undermine that manager is there. So we also have to be really careful on that leadership team about how do we support each other? How do we ensure that we're not undermining and that the staff know there is a clear command, you know, that that chain of command in who you speak to. And that's important.

SPEAKER_01: 31:16

Yeah, it's very interesting what's happening with the dynamics right now because it it's there's uh there's a divide happening where there's a lot of veteran restaurant owners that have been in the game for 20, 30, 40 years, and they are not great at sounding setting boundaries. Some of them know it, some of them don't, right? And they're used to working with people who say yes to picking up shifts all the time, who will take work home from them from a manager perspective, and who will work 60 or 70 hours a week without blinking an eye. And Gen Z is saying, that's ridiculous. Why would anyone do that? Um, and they are really good at setting boundaries, and so there's a lot of friction right now happening between the two. And I think the um operators that are realizing that they have to think differently and they need to make some changes are are really having to take a hard look at their business and go, okay, I'm probably gonna have to hire more people in order to accommodate this flexibility. But that's difficult. I mean, are you seeing that as well?

SPEAKER_00: 32:14

Yeah, definitely. And and you're right, you know, it's that that idea of what is part, you know, it's it literally is the changing of the guard. You know, if we looked at uh baby boomers, you know, in particular for, and I know a number of my clients who are at that bottom end of baby boomers, top end of Gen X, they're looking at retirement, and they are those that have put in those 60, 70 hour weeks without blinking, without getting the the you know, the the more money or the pats on the back, that what they are looking for now. And you can't blame Gen Z in saying, why do I need to work 70 hours to prove myself if I can do it in lesser time by using better systems, by putting procedures in place, by employing more people, you know, it's and it's get it's that changing of that whole mindset. There'll be some that will never want to change their mindset, and they'll they'll retire and they'll go. So I think it'll it's that that next five to ten years. I know with my clients, you know, after 31 years, you know, so far in business, I can see, and I'm sure I'm starting to look older to them too, is that they'll retire, and I and I can see a whole mindset shift in that the next leadership, which for many of them are gen wise, and then you know, but they're looking at it, they've got to remember, well, who who was who was I looking to as that mentor? So it's still that baby boom or that Gen X. So really there's not for a massive big change, it probably won't be until Gen Z get to that 50, 60 year old, and because I think you know the the life cycle at work will be very different because they've done things differently, and you know what, good on them. I mean, how many times have we worked hours and thankless hours on tasks and not being and it's not always about remuneration, it's just about being acknowledged or even being seen in the room. Whereas, you know, the younger ones will just go, no, like I need to have my time with my family. And we don't, you know, I think it's not until you start to grow a little bit older or you know, things happen in life that we realize work is important, we need it, we need to make money. Yes, that's how we feed, but that's how we can, you know, support others in our community that are less fortunate, but we also need our own time.

SPEAKER_01: 34:24

It's so true. I I have a couple clients that I'm working on exit strategies with right now, and you know, this is the long game, like you mentioned, three to five years' time. And and because they haven't set boundaries and because they've worn that those work hours as a badge of honor and that grit as a badge of honor, which I've also done. When we start to look at the list of tasks that they have on their, you know, underneath their realm of responsibility and start to give some of those that away and start developing the team that's going to lead after they're, you know, out of the building and they create that space for themselves, it is real uncomfortable because they have no idea what to do with it. And it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 35:05

It's amazing. What do I do now? Like, you know, I know my clients always joke with me, you know, they're not wanting me to retire, but they go, you know, are you thinking about retirement? Because there are a few that are in, you know, other hospitality consultants that are starting to retire. And I thought, what am I going to do? Call bingo? I mean, like, I don't know what else I I would do, but I know I have got an amazing EA, Sarah, who takes on a lot of my business. You know, I've got quite a large team as well for doing all the research. But she handles that and and it is that letting go and sharing that responsibility and trust. I I don't think you can ever uh water down trust. It is the most key component, whether it is you directly to your, you know, that that EA or that one person you might work for, or trusting your team that when they go out on the floor, that they're going to do their utmost, they're caring about the team, they're making sure that everybody's safe, not only the team members, but also making sure the the customers, the guests, the you know, the patrons are safe as well, and that they're providing the most amazing experience. So it'll be interesting to see in decades to come how much the hospitality industry will change. But I, you know, Kristen, they will never take away that connection. We saw that through the pandemic, that people desperately needed each other. You know, it was great to get away from the family and friends for a short period of time, but then after that, it was like we need each other. Yeah. So restaurants were full, hotels, casinos, everything was full because we just needed that. We are humans, we need other people around us. Um, and so hospitality, you know, yes, we'll get AI and it can do a few fancy things and it will always be there, but it's enhancing our uh opportunities in hospitality. I don't think it's taking away, I think it's gonna give us more of an opportunity for our Gen Z when they feel comfortable to get out there and have those conversations and connections. So I can't wait to see the changes that that will come over the next 10, 20, 30 years.

SPEAKER_01: 37:09

I agree with you. I mean, what do you think of the top three um positive impacts that Gen Z is going to have on the industry?

SPEAKER_00: 37:17

I think it'll be it first off, it's a wake-up call to all, you know, I won't say all, um, to my age group and to others that we don't have to be working these long hours. I think that's gonna be the first thing that we could have spent more time with our families, or we could have uh, you know, done things differently. But you know, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I think that that'll be the key. I think our health will also be better from that uh because we'll have those opportunities to see things differently, you know, not just sitting behind a desk, actually going out and having conversations with their team, doing more of that you know, team bonding is probably not the right word. I know we've really pushed here in the last 10 to 15 years these community projects, and I'm seeing a lot of my clients that are really behind that now. Their teams are growing. So, whereas you know, at times before COVID, they may have one or two, or maybe five, would say, Oh, look, you know, we'll all give blood together as a group, or we'll all go out and we'll um, you know, support uh a woman's shelter or whatever it might be, or raising funds for a larger charity or for a community group. That has absolutely grown exponentially over the last few years with some venues where we've now got young people, particularly Gen Z, they are choosing where they want to work because of what that organization does. Not just sticks it on a wall or gives a check every few, you know, every few years, but actually they go, I want to be part of that organization because they're doing something more than just showing up and serving a meal, they're actually giving back to the community. And that to me is another thing that we're gonna see that change. It's about others, how we can help them in spreading that that money. But also, I think we're gonna build deeper, deeper connections in in a in with our with our members, with our guests, with our customers. So to me, it's all about the communication, that connecting, having a better lifestyle, and just enjoying life a little bit more, but still understanding that we've got that responsibility.

SPEAKER_01: 39:26

Yeah, I'd love that. I agree with all of those points. I also think that there's a huge opportunity with the way that Gen Z has grown up with their phones, with the internet, how how they're able to have access to all this information, how much they understand social media, I think there's a huge opportunity for them to lean into those strengths and um to utilize AI to create a lot of the systems that restaurants need in very, very fast, you know, very productive timeframe. So I think if if the if owners will lean into that and delegate and and be comfortable with saying, like, let's make, you know, would you go create this for the restaurant first iteration and let's test it and build it or and you know, adjust it over time. I think there's going to be a lot of awesome change that can happen in the industry as well.

SPEAKER_00: 40:18

Listening to them. I think that's the biggest thing. Like we we it it doesn't matter how old or how young or how long you've been in the business, listen to each other. I think, you know, uh I I love I had one uh team member say to me last week, oh, we're sick of this. They always ask us for our opinion, and then we give our opinion, and the the boss just stands here and goes, nah, I done that, tried that, oh, because that's stupid. Why would you do that? And I think, why should we come to these meetings anymore? Like you say, oh, please give us your thoughts, and then you shoot down every one of them. And it made me laugh. And I said, It is so true, you know. Like, listen to what they've got to say because yes, they may be straight out of school, they may have never been in hospitality, but they've also been a customer as a child, and so heard their parents talk about it, or the grandparents, or their friends, so they can see things very differently to perhaps the way that our eyes see it, because they're seeing it from a different viewpoint.

SPEAKER_01: 41:12

Yeah, 100%. I love it. Michelle, thank you so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure having this conversation with you. And uh, I just love again, like the restaurant industry and the hospitality industry is the industry no matter what continent you're on. It's amazing. So it is if people are um wanting to learn more about you and tap into the book and the podcast and all things, Michelle and Pasco, how do they connect with you?

SPEAKER_00: 41:38

Uh well, the podcast, it's we're just about to go into our eighth year, so it's Michelle Pasco Hospitality Podcast. I've got the amazing guests, and Kristen will be one of them coming up in early 2026. Um, and look, even if you're not in hospitality, it's always fantastic with what leaders are talking about. We're always talking about leadership, we're talking about customer service or those amazing experiences and that connection with community. Also, my um I'm on LinkedIn, so please reach out to me. It's P-A-S-C-O-E. There's a little E on the end for Michelle Pasco, or my website, which is really simple, it's just Michellepasco.com.

SPEAKER_01: 42:16

I love it. Awesome. Michelle, thanks again. This has been a wonderful conversation and cannot wait to share it with the listeners. And I'll talk to you very soon.

SPEAKER_00: 42:25

Yes, thank you so much, Christian, and I wish all your listeners all the very best. And for those that the that you coach, I know you do a phenomenal job uh with them. And having a coach in hospitality who knows what they're talking about can really change.