Speaker 1: 0:08

welcome back everybody. This week, I am joined by kevin morrison, who is the owner of fish and beer and tacos, tequila and whiskey in denver, colorado. Kevin and I take a deep dive into how he's managing prime costs and all the little things that he's doing in his business. And how he's managing prime costs and all the little things that he's doing in his business and how he's empowering his staff to think like an investor, which is just a really awesome approach to running business and proven to be really, really successful. We also take a little bit of a deep dive into how Kevin and his team are preparing for all the uncertainty in the economy around tariffs and some of the ways that they are getting really, really creative and putting some backup plans in place to be really proactive and also reactive whenever they need to. So ton of value in this conversation. Kevin's just a total, badass, total stud and there's a lot of great tips out of this conversation. Kevin's just a total, badass, total stud and there's a lot of great tips out of this conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:08

Welcome to the Restaurant Leadership Podcast, the show where restaurant leaders learn tools, tactics and habits from the world's greatest operators. I'm your host, kristen Marvin. With Solutions by Kristen. I've spent the last two decades in the restaurant industry and now partner with restaurant owners to develop their leaders and scale their businesses through powerful one-on-one coaching, group coaching and leadership workshops. This show is complete with episodes around coaching, leadership development and interviews with powerful industry leaders. You can now engage with me on the show and share topics you'd like to hear about leadership, lessons you want to learn and any feedback you have. Simply click the link at the top of the show notes and I will give you a shout out on a future episode. Thanks so much for listening and I look forward to connecting.

Speaker 1: 2:09

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Speaker 2: 3:41

For many, many years. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 3:44

But also excited to share some of the challenges that you're facing in the Denver market. That we all know is very challenging, incredibly expensive and some incredible learnings. Give us a little bit of insight about how long you've been in the business, A little bit of backstory here.

Speaker 2: 4:02

Oh, my God, the whole, my whole, my, give us the abbreviated version, and then we'll jump in how long you've been in the business.

Speaker 1: 4:05

A little bit of backstory here. Oh my God, the whole my whole my.

Speaker 2: 4:07

Give us the abbreviated version and then we'll jump in, go back to the 80s yeah Well, I'll give you my Colorado. So I moved out here from Chicago 94, spent a year in Aspen, loved it. I'm like I'm going to go buy a place and settle down, and then I saw the real estate prices. I, and then I saw the real estate prices, I'm like, yeah, that's not going to happen. So I ended up in Boulder for a year and then been in Denver ever since Started. Where was I? I was sous chef at a Barolo Grill, which is still there, high-end Italian. Got to do the Italy trip with those guys one year, which was amazing. And then from there I went on to open a sandwich shop called Spicy Pickle sub shop. There I went on to open a sandwich shop called Spicy Pickle Sub Shop A buddy of mine. We ran it for five years five years and we were spoiled with the hours we were working and we had three locations and making good money and got a wild idea to franchise. I usually don't use the F word.

Speaker 1: 5:08

It is the F word. It is the F word man.

Speaker 2: 5:10

Oh my God, was it an eye-opening experience. And I talked to my brother about it and he was in finance. He was a CFO of a large company here in Colorado and he's like do you really want to do that? And I'm like they're talking about stock, like three, four bucks a share. I'm going to own 12 million shares. Life's going to be good. I ended up selling like 10 million shares for like a half a penny when I got fired from a company that I started. Oh, no.

Speaker 2: 5:40

Yeah, so that was quite the experience. I don't regret it. It was fun because, like I mentioned, I have a high school diploma. These diplomas are fake.

Speaker 1: 5:50

Don't give it away, kevin. Don't give it away, just fake it. How long did it take you to go public?

Speaker 2: 5:59

I think the process from start to finish was maybe a little bit over a year, with all the paperwork and everything from start to finish was maybe a little bit over a year, with all the paperwork and everything. We had brought on a guy. It was my partner and I running it and we were your typical restaurant guys. I mean, he was in his 20s, I was in my 30s, life was good, and then had this opportunity to franchise. So we brought on a CEO, we brought on a CFO, we raised funds, raised a bunch load of money yeah you can cuss, it's OK.

Speaker 2: 6:29

OK, yeah, raised. It's just a shitload of money and it was just unreal how the burn like had a register in every state we were in and it was a great learning experience. I wouldn't bootstrap it. You know it's back in the day when we opened you could bootstrap a restaurant and get by. It's very hard to do now, and then franchising is a whole nother world.

Speaker 1: 6:52

We should do another episode about that alone.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Yeah, that's great I love it.

Speaker 1: 6:58

If you are feeling the pressure of rising costs and staffing shortages or supply chain chaos, you are not alone. And costs and staffing shortages or supply chain chaos, you are not alone. The truth is, the economic forecast may be shifting, but your restaurant still needs to keep moving forward. That's why I'm headed to the 2025 National Restaurant Association show, happening May 17th through the 20th in Chicago. This show is built for operators like you, offering real solutions for real challenges, from cost-saving equipment to strategies for navigating today's tough labor market. Plus, you'll get access to cutting-edge technology, menu innovation and expert-led sessions that'll help you stay resilient no matter what the market throws your way, and I'll be there, and I'd love to see you too.

Speaker 1: 7:46

The market throws your way, and I'll be there, and I'd love to see you too. Here's a bonus for you, too. Use my promo code Kristen25 at checkout and get $25 off your Expo Show badge. All you have to do is go to nationalrestaurantshowcom to register and grab your ticket. Don't wait, though, because this offer expires May 9th. The 2025 show is where the future of food service comes to life. Don't miss it, and I hope to see you there. Ok, so what happened after Spicy Pickle?

Speaker 2: 8:15

What did happen? Oh, after. So I pitched the idea. I'm like, hey, I went to our CEO. I'm like, hey, man, we should get a food truck and we won't do sandwiches, we'll come up with another concept. And he's like a coach roach. I'm like no man, they're, they're getting real popular now. So, um, we had kind of butted heads and I got somehow. I got terminated on Christmas, like December 23rd. I got I was in Canada with my in-laws and I get. He asked me to fly back. So I flew back in December 23rd, got term in Canada with my in-laws and he asked me to fly back. So I flew back on December 23rd, got terminated. I'm like, thanks, man.

Speaker 2: 8:50

So then I opened the taco truck, the first one. It was called Pinché Tacos, just slang. You know for the effort, it just it was. I like to call it dumb luck, because it was perfect timing for food trucks in Denver and tacos around the country. So we hit at the right time. They were just very simple authentic ingredients, authentic cooking styles, but with a gringo twist, and it just took off. Honestly, it was nothing I had planned. There was a very small business plan. There was a very small business plan, but I rented the first location off Colfax in New York because I could afford the rent if it went under. And that's how we did the first spicy pickle we rented the cheapest place we could find because if it went under we both could afford the rent.

Speaker 1: 9:41

Did you know you wanted to go from fruit truck to?

Speaker 2: 9:43

brick and mortar? That's a good question. I don't think I ever thought about it, it just happened. I think I'm a really lucky guy because a lot of things just happen and I noticed things that just happen I do better at than when I plan things out. We planned the Phoenix location for years and it didn't work. Yeah, and the money we put into that place, but when we just opened it it just kind of like I went more with my gut.

Speaker 1: 10:15

So how did you find the Highlands location? Did you plan for that one? The second PJ, the second one.

Speaker 2: 10:20

So the Highlands location? No, the landlord called me up and he's like hey, man, I just read an article about you. I think it was in the Westward or something and we were at my niece's high school graduation dinner at Sullivan Steakhouse downtown, which used to be there, my favorite steakhouse.

Speaker 1: 10:36

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:37

And he's like I got a spot for you. He's like Quiznos just backed out and I'm like I don't know if I want to go in a spot where Quiznos was going in. Not that there's anything wrong with Quiznos, but they tend to be more of the corporate area. So I went and looked at it and I just fell in love with it and I had the A team at the original location. I mean, every shift was the A team and I'm like I'm smart enough to realize I'm like I better utilize these folks or they're going to leave so open the second one and it you know it was.

Speaker 2: 11:09

It was a great learning experience because you can't it's so hard to duplicate things and I'm a big fan of Pink's Tacos or Pink's Hot Dogs in LA and they've had so many opportunities to expand and they just they didn't want to because they're like you can't duplicate this and it's true. Um, so I enjoyed it. Looking back, I'm not sure I would have done it again. Why not? I love mom and pop places. Uh, to me they lose kind of the mystique when you start to become a small chain. I mean we had four of them at one time and to me they just lose something, but that's just me.

Speaker 1: 11:50

Yeah, how did fish and beer come to be?

Speaker 2: 11:53

Fish and beer. Uh, I was getting bored and I needed a new project and I'm like I want to do a seafood joint, like I grew up. I grew up in the Midwest, so it was fish fries every Friday, especially during Lent, like no meat fish fries. We my parents, when they retired they would go down the Gulf Coast of Florida every winter and go to those seafood shacks down there and everything was fried and I just loved it and that's how that came about. And our first menu, from where we are with the first menu to where we are today, I mean it's 180 degrees, it's totally different.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Yeah, what have been the main changes.

Speaker 2: 12:31

We have more than four entrees on the menu. Now the food is way more approachable. I had a great chef partner at the time and her food was a little bit more high end than my comfort zone, but I just let her go with it. Yeah, and it just it really I don't think fit the neighborhood. Um, she left and then I jumped back in the kitchen and just started making some changes and doing what felt right to me and, uh, it's evolved into where we are today. I got an amazing chef there now. Um, and they just they do an awesome job so you've got the location in rhino right location rhino.

Speaker 2: 13:14

And then the other tacos, tequila, whiskey, 30 second nerving in denver and then an airport deal how was what made you decide to go into the airport?

Speaker 1: 13:23

Did you get a call? You got another call.

Speaker 2: 13:28

It was like my fifth call and honestly, I said no because we had just got rejected the month before and I was literally heartbroken over that. I was like God, it's like it wasn't meant to be. And the local company Skyport, who are my partners now their COO, called me and she's like we want to pitch you and I said I just can't do it. And I said I just lost this bid. I really wanted this bid. I loved it, loved the people that we would have been partners with, loved the concourse. She goes can I call you in two weeks? I said, yeah, sure. So in two weeks she called me. I. She goes can I call you in two weeks? I said, yeah, sure, so in two weeks she called me. I'm like, all right, let's do it.

Speaker 2: 14:07

So it was during COVID. We had to do the pitch. Um, we had a video or film it, videotape, whatever the kids do now we had to do that. So it was us Elway's and Pete's Coffee, okay, and um, god, from start to finish, probably three-year process it's a long process, for sure.

Speaker 1: 14:24

I went through it back in 07. We lost. Oh yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 14:28

Yeah, it's a long process it was a long process, um, and then she called me and she's like congratulations. And I'm like on what. She's like we got chosen. I'm like for what? And then it dawned on me. I'm like are you kidding me're going to have a restaurant at the airport? Yeah, and it was just, it was so cool.

Speaker 1: 14:46

Yeah, how's it been performing?

Speaker 2: 14:48

It's good we started out. It was doing okay, you know, but super happy with the team out there. The food is amazing, they do a great job. And then probably about we've been open. Oh my God, what's the date We've been open. Oh my God, what's the date.

Speaker 1: 15:04

It's almost a year.

Speaker 2: 15:05

Okay, I think the 24th, nice Congrats. I'm horrible with dates, but it's almost a year. In the last five months, man sales have been very good, everybody's happy, incredible. And it's great because it's a licensed deal. You know they call me once in a while. I mean, they are such a skyport. I can't speak highly enough about those guys. They're like hey, man, we want to change the kosher salt, we can't get this from our vendor, but we want to get your approval. I'm like yeah, sure, thanks by the way. Amazing yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:46

I mean, they really respect the brand and what's going on and what we do. Are you? Are you done opening restaurants For now?

Speaker 2: 15:53

Okay, I want to say something.

Speaker 1: 15:56

If anybody's listening. Give Kevin a call, Cause he might be.

Speaker 2: 16:10

No, I mean I, I would would. I love restaurant business. I my I love everything that leads up to opening day and then I like to pop in for opening day and shake some hands and and have a couple drinks and then leave and then, if I'm never seen again, I'm cool with that. The stress of day-to-day it, it's, I just don't it's, I don't get that rush anymore what is it about the opening process that draws you in so much?

Speaker 2: 16:34

oh, I love it. I love the creative aspect of it. I love like sitting down and I wish, I wish, hopefully, someone's listening and they're like hey, hey man, and I don't, I don't need a lot of money. It's like like I like hey, we'll give you whatever and you design this concept and you get it open. I would love that. I love the creative process. I love like all right, whatever. It is like, hey man, you want to do a Indian? You know Indian, Indian, Mexican taqueria? Like I love doing the research, I love doing the R and D, I love doing the design, the flow of the restaurant, the construction process, picking out plateware, everything, the equipment. I love all that. And then it's like after opening day, it's like all right, we got to do opening procedures. Hey, why didn't this? Why didn't this cooler get checked? Why didn't this get wrapped? Why didn't this get condensed? That stuff drives me crazy.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:36

I love it.

Speaker 2: 17:37

But I still love the industry and that's why I'm trying to move into coaching. So it's like, all right, I have 40 years experience. When I write everything down on paper, I'm like, oh, I sound like I should know what I'm doing. It looks good in black and white. So that's what I'm doing now. I still have the two restaurants, I have an amazing director of operations and just spending more time in Canada with the kids. But will I ever open a restaurant? I would like to, because there's a couple of concepts I have to get out of my system.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Okay, but I don't want to be the financial guy. I'd rather be like, only like 1%, and I'm fine with that.

Speaker 1: 18:17

Okay, love it.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Love the industry.

Speaker 1: 18:21

Let's talk about Denver and the challenges and what's going on in the market.

Speaker 2: 18:26

What has been?

Speaker 1: 18:27

the biggest challenge for you.

Speaker 2: 18:29

Denver's tough. Homeless is tough. Minimum wage is tough. Saturation the market's saturated. Yeah, a lot of younger people are moving out of Denver because they can't afford to buy.

Speaker 1: 18:43

Yeah, that's why we left.

Speaker 2: 18:47

Yeah, it's a tough market. The city's going through some I don't want to call it growing pains because we've been this size for a while. Yeah, the new administration's having some struggles and I think they're going to work through it. It is frustrating to be on this end because it's really hurting retail. It's hurting small business owners not just restaurants but any kind of small business owners. But I think hopefully the administration will come around and be like OK, we got to definitely make some changes administration will come around and be like okay, we got to definitely make some changes.

Speaker 1: 19:27

Hey there, podcast friends, I hope you're enjoying these impactful conversations and leadership insights I'm bringing you each week. Before we dive back into today's episode, I want to take a moment and reach out and ask a small favor. That would go a long way in supporting the show. If you've been loving the content I'm providing, please take a moment to leave a rating and review. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, Not only does it make my day, but it also plays a pivotal role in helping the show grow.

Speaker 1: 19:52

Your reviews boost my visibility, attract new listeners and encourage exciting guests to join me on the mic. So if you want to be part of my show's growth journey, hit that review button and let me know what you think. Thanks a million for being awesome listeners. So let's talk about these points individually. The homeless aspect, or unhoused I'm not sure what the verbiage is these days Saturation you know, I was part of the scene in 07 when everything just started to explode and every local restaurateur started popping up with multiple concepts and the neighborhoods around the city started exploding, and it just hasn't stopped.

Speaker 1: 20:32

Every time I come back, every few months, I just I have a new laundry list of places. It's insane. Um, but let's, let's talk about these individually. Minimum wage um, saturation of concepts and competition, and then homeless how do you handle the homeless situation? How does that impact your business?

Speaker 2: 20:50

You really can't handle them. I've called the police numerous times. The police are in a tough spot. They get a bad rap. In my opinion, they're in a tough spot. The person that should be getting calls is the DA, because the DA doesn't want to prosecute and as long as they're not doing anything illegal, they they can't, the police can't do anything. I mean, we've seen them smoking, crack right right on our patio with guests three tables away and it's like, unless the police see it, um, they can't do any. They can't do anything about it.

Speaker 1: 21:29

Are you and I know there's this as a restaurateur this desire to protect the experience and the environment. But from a guest perspective, are guests empathetic to, to homeless people? Are they complaining and do they look at you and the team and say what are? Why aren't you doing something about this?

Speaker 2: 21:47

You get both. Most of the homeless people you know, like when we were at Colfax in New York. You know, people know Colfax. If you don't know Colfax, it's a very funky strip. It's been funky forever. A lot of homeless. We try to. First of all, we try to treat them with empathy. You know I feel bad. Whatever you know, I've went out a few times, had conversations. The majority of the homeless that I've come in contact with and approach are kind, they're polite. They have some issues, they have some drug problems, they have some mental problems. They don't have the resources. So that sucks right there. That sucks in my heart, because I've been through several mental breakdowns and depression and anxiety where I couldn't function. So I'm very empathetic. However, when it starts to affect my business and my livelihood and people I work with and our money, it's a tough spot. So most guests are empathetic but they sometimes they stay away.

Speaker 1: 22:59

We dealt with that, a lot being in Five Points, five Points is right on that corner of Park Ave and Larimer and we would have you know we had a patio and we would have the same people come up and eat off guest plates, take their sandwich right off their plate, take the cash, tips or cash right off the table, and we, just we had to train the staff to just be uber aware. And we same thing, we cared about the community. We were trying to do better, trying to make an impact, and we would. You know, everybody just had to be on watch and have conversations of like I'm sorry, you know you can't be here today. You got to move along, you know it was challenging, for sure.

Speaker 2: 23:39

It changes your training program. For sure you have to add that factor in it. It changes your training program. For sure you have to add that factor in it.

Speaker 1: 23:49

It does, so how are you combating?

Speaker 2: 23:49

saturation. What are you doing about that? Not opening more joints? Okay, you know, I just tell the crew, when I had Spicy Pickle, we at the time the first, I don't know how many years five, six years we used only Boar's Head and I'll never forget. But the local distributor came in and I was all stressed out because there was a new sandwich shop opening like across town. And he's like, just focus on doing what you do and let everything else play out. And man, that just stuck with me.

Speaker 2: 24:26

So I told my management team and I talked to the crew. It's like, listen, guys, just do what you do best. We can't. We have no say in who's going to open across street. I mean we've had Taquerias open incredibly close to us and I was like it's kind of a bad move, you know, like it's just there's gotta be some ethics and morals in there. But it is what it is, you know, and I mean we just do what we do and a lot of it. I just look as like, hey, man, we can only do so much. We can only give great if we give great service. We can only give so much great service. We make great tacos. We can only make so great tacos. We have to give the guests the reason to come back and hopefully they'll bring someone. If we do everything we can, we'll be okay. Yeah, that's all you can do. I mean there's nothing you can. How do you deal with saturation? I mean, you just have to step up your game and make sure you're dialing in every shift.

Speaker 1: 25:25

Yeah, keep your market share and keep it growing.

Speaker 2: 25:27

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Yeah, let's talk about minimum wage, do we?

Speaker 2: 25:32

have to.

Speaker 1: 25:34

I know it's it's such a tired conversation, but what are you doing to combat minimum wage? I mean, how is that impacting your P&L? I don't see that Minimum wage.

Speaker 2: 25:44

We've always paid well above it with the kitchen guys Always Like. I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago. I was the first pinche tacos back in the day. I remember I was working like doubles every day and I needed someone to close. So I was stressing out over paying our shift supervisor 14 bucks an hour. And she had the keys, she had the combination to the safe, she handled all the cash, she did tip outs, she did all the paperwork and I'm like man, I don't know if we can afford it and you got to sleep at night and I got to get off a little bit earlier and I just look, I'm like 14 bucks an hour um the.

Speaker 2: 26:28

The minimum wage that really hurts is are the front of the house, the tip minimum wage. You know. We're at 18, god, what is it?

Speaker 1: 26:35

1882, I think and going up a dollar right what's that? Is it going to go up a dollar every year? I think next year it's going to stay the same.

Speaker 2: 26:43

I thought I looked at that. But their tip minimum wage is 302 less. So you know, when they're making 1569, 1579, and they used to be making $7, that's where the crunch, that's where the pain comes in. So and we do, we use the tip model for a TTW. At fish and beer. Everybody makes a minimum of regular minimum wage because how we do our tips and our kitchen guys, we make more than that. But it has definitely hit the P and L. I think what you're going to see is a lot of places are going to entertain, going to fast casual. We actually we did a um, we built out a program or I forget what you call it, but we built a model. We modeled what our taqueria would look like. Look like if it was just fast casual, and we decided at that time not to do it. Um, I'm not saying it's going to be, it's off the table forever, but at that time we just didn't want to do it.

Speaker 1: 27:46

What was the deciding factor there?

Speaker 2: 27:48

Was it experience, or did the numbers not make sense, or the savings weren't large enough to excite me and I'm a big fan of service and I know just from when we opened the hot second rolling pin pizza was open. We had a fast, casual model there and we still nailed the service. But we've been in business I don't know 14 years now is the taqueria there? It's. I'm a little nervous, to be honest, about taking that away, cause I think we'll lose some guests and it's one of those things like how much do you lose in sales? Like how much do you lose in sales versus how much do you gain in less labor.

Speaker 1: 28:29

Yeah, especially I feel like when you're in a neighborhood like you're, a neighborhood joint, like you are, there's such a community presence and people gather and drink and eat yeah. And just gather there. So let's talk about costs. I mean, how, what do you do? What are you controlling differently in your P&L in order to to offset labor?

Speaker 2: 28:54

We. I made everybody get tattoos that say prime cost on their arm.

Speaker 1: 29:00

You did not on their arm.

Speaker 2: 29:06

You did not, okay, no, but I just thought about that. I'm like, you know, a lot of our staff has have tats and I'm like, all right, I'll pay for it. It is, I wear a few different hats. You know, I'm a small business guy, I wear a few different hats. Yeah, but when I I look at everything now and that is part of my philosophy when I'm coaching is like look at everything as an investor. Take out the emotions, take out, oh, I love this person. Take out, oh, but guests love this. Oh, but the chef loves this dish. Take all that out and look at it as numbers.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Kevin. How do you do that? It's so in my experience being in the independent space. It's so difficult. It's so much easier said than done. How do you make that shift to more data-driven decisions and take that emotion out?

Speaker 2: 29:53

of it recently in my whole philosophy is I just don't give a.

Speaker 1: 30:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:06

A light bulb went off. To be honest with you, it's like holy shit, like and now that I'm, you know I'm still in the industry and heavily deep in the industry, but now that I put on this coaching hat, it's like, once opening day comes, the only thing that matters are profits Like I love your farm to table, man, I love your culture, I love this, but you can't do any of that unless you make money. Can't do any of that unless you make money. And if you're willing to go down with the ship over your ethos or whatever you want to call it, it's like man, that's. That is not a good business decision.

Speaker 2: 30:47

So it sounds very cold and very business-like, but we are in a business and my job is to make money. You know I had investors I still have investors that they're early on. They got paid off, but I have a responsibility to them to pay them back. You know they got paid back. They're they're happy, they're fine. But now to go out and raise however much it costs to open a restaurant and the build-out cost, raise however much it costs to open a restaurant and the build-out cost. Like the investors don't care about your farm to table and all this stuff unless they're making money. Yeah, or at least not losing money yeah so I just yeah

Speaker 2: 31:32

flip the switch and it's like hey guys, I'm sorry. When we started small, it was like all right, we looked at the schedule everybody's coming in 15 minutes later and that moved the needle a little bit. Yeah. And then, once you get buy-in from the staff, then they start getting creative with ideas and you know, hey, we can use these leftovers. Or why are we? Why are we ordering so much? And you know we have a lot of systems. I'm very pleased with the systems we have in place and I'm always looking for new systems. But we really try to pinch pennies and squeeze all that lemon out of that juice or all the juice out of the lemon, and then it's like, all right, now what can we do with the lemon waste? How can we use that to make money?

Speaker 1: 32:19

Yeah, love it.

Speaker 2: 32:21

So it's just looking at. I look at things now as an investor, yeah, and it's helped dramatically before I looked at it as a chef owner. For years I looked at it as a chef and then you could back in the day and then it went to chef owner and it's like all right, and then now it's strictly investor.

Speaker 1: 32:42

How are you passing that on to your staff, that mindset?

Speaker 2: 32:47

Through my director of operations. He's the people person. He and I talk a lot and he's a fellow Midwest he. I love his work ethic and he gets it. He's a smart dude, he. He went to school out there, he went to, he went to ASU.

Speaker 2: 33:06

No U of A. He went to U of A, okay, nice, yeah, business guy and he gets it. And our staff is amazing, like I'm sure everybody says that. But man, they're just, they're willing to look at things differently, they're open, they're, they don't have egos, they're not cocky when they, when the wheels fall off, they admit it and they learn from it and it's, it's fun yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:31

Unlock the skills to transform your leadership with the Hospitality Leaders Roadmap Move from ordinary to extraordinary, packed with practical strategies to lead with confidence and create lasting impact in your restaurant. Visit kristinmarvincom slash audio to download your free audio book today. So what's made the biggest impact in terms of prime cost? Is it all these little bitty things that you've been doing and the staff's been doing?

Speaker 2: 34:05

We always did pretty well with our food. I was always pleased with our food cost and our liquor cost. We tightened up some of our ordering procedures for food. We tightened up the waste. We tightened up prep. I mean, we broke it down. Staff kitchen staff wasn't happy about this, but they came around. We literally timed every dish that it took the prep and then we took that and we looked at our product mix and say, okay, this dish is it takes our longest to prep. Um, and it's not a big mover. So we considered it a dog, which I don't know why they call it dogs.

Speaker 1: 34:46

I love dogs.

Speaker 2: 34:48

You know, dogs are my favorite animal, so all right, it's a dog. We either have to tweak it or get it off the menu. We started looking at dollar profit on every single dish and some dishes, you know, I'll be honest, we had to raise the price on not much, but we didn't have a price change in what was it over two years at either restaurant. Wow, we should have been doing price increases more often.

Speaker 1: 35:13

Yeah, how often would you do them?

Speaker 2: 35:16

Oh my gosh, I don't. Some people say every quarter. I've heard people say every month probably. I'd probably do once a year like moving forward. We'll probably adjust things once a year.

Speaker 1: 35:32

Did you do all of that menu costing by hand?

Speaker 2: 35:36

No, we use R365, which is a beast. A lot of people that I'm speaking with lately they use Margin Edge and I just heard great things about it. We looked at it and my director of ops, brian, said if you do it, I'm leaving because you'd be the one doing everything. I just signed the contract and be the one doing everything. I just signed the contract and send the check.

Speaker 1: 36:05

He does it all.

Speaker 2: 36:05

And he's like it is so much input up front. So but once you get that in, man it's. It's a sweet system. R365 is massive. There is so much there. Brian literally spends one day a week learning more, and we've had it for eight, nine, ten years.

Speaker 1: 36:20

Wow, are you using everything that it offers?

Speaker 2: 36:23

No, my God, no, not even no. We're using a hell of a lot more now than we were two years ago, though I mean we, brian and I think the same so we can only take in so much data, you know. So we pick and choose, but it is a beast. It's a great system for just having two restaurants. Honestly, I don't think the two restaurateur needs it. Yeah, but at this time we were growing, we had five restaurants we were looking to do. I wanted to double in size in the next few years, and so it was a great system. But from what I hear, margin edge is really easy to work with and you know you got some upfront admin time to enter everything. But once it's done it's a really good system.

Speaker 1: 37:17

Well, we were talking about that last week, right, that's. That is the hurdle when, when restaurants switch is who's going to do all this data entry?

Speaker 1: 37:23

and yeah, it's correct and and yeah, the demo I just did with margin edge looks looks killer I. I love their recipe. Costing ask. I don't know if r365 has this because I'm not super familiar with it, but I love that you can cost the menu out per item and look and go okay, this menu is costing us, it's at 22% and then every time you enter an invoice in, it will automatically update that cost.

Speaker 2: 37:44

That's what's cool, is you get real time Like I'm old school. So I still, to this day, I do everything by hand. And then our our chef at fish and beer wine. He, he's a computer guy, so he has his own Excel sheet and then he's learning our 365. So he likes the computer version. And even when I do it by hand we're off just by a couple pennies. So we teach two ways, we teach old school, we teach my way, and we even say you'll learn Kevin's way first, and then you'll learn learn brian's way and brian is.

Speaker 1: 38:26

You know, he's the it guy, he's our marketing guy, he's everything. Yeah, how much time is that are you and the team dedicating to that?

Speaker 2: 38:30

to to costing to the continuous learning now is everything on the menu food and beverage, everything is 100% costed out and it's it lives in our 365. So obviously, when we have a new dish on the menu, our chef or kitchen manager whatever place it's at they're responsible for doing that. But then we're all. We're always revisiting. You know, we have our kitchen manager. She wants to move up, so she's starting. She monitors the invoices, ops and she'll do the new costing out by hand so she can see oh man, this went up a dollar and this is how it's going to affect our menu. So we're constantly teaching that.

Speaker 1: 39:32

OK, what other big challenges are you facing right now? What other big challenges are you facing?

Speaker 2: 39:37

right now. You know we're good with labor, we're fully staffed. It takes, we're interviewing for a new management position now. And it's still amazing that the no-shows you get. Yeah, so that's a challenge. Yeah, still amazing that the no shows you get yeah, so that's a challenge. Yeah, um, but the biggest challenge is the uncertainty of the economy. How are the tariffs going to hit us? What, you know, do we do? We buy in bulk. You know we reach out to our our main liquor distributor here is rndc. We're big with them and they're sitting on a lot. They they brought in a lot of product, but it's like, okay, if we could hit with these tariffs, what is that going to look like? And it was like when COVID first hit and we were all in. You know, we had a huge layoff on like day three of COVID and then myself, our admin person, our director of ops, our HR person we had an accountant at that time. Every day at one o'clock we got on a call. What's the update? What's the update?

Speaker 2: 40:46

And it was the same when the tariffs were being threatened. What are we going to do? What are we going to do and we're doing all these models about? Okay, if this, this and we're looking at, okay, can we come out with a tariff-free menu Like, what items can we get that are being by tariff?

Speaker 1: 41:01

That's interesting.

Speaker 2: 41:02

And it's like well, avocados no, tequila, no. Pesto, no, no, yeah, whiskey, all right, we're tacos, tequila, whiskey, push the whiskey man yeah.

Speaker 2: 41:13

Yeah, whiskey man, yeah, yeah, hopefully they won't know that they're four dollar tacos, now eight bucks, yeah. But and then we just like you know what, we're just going to ride it out, we're? We can't sit here and constantly do different models. Yeah we'll, we'll react very fast. That's one advantage we have of being small is we can react. We print menus in-house for fish and beer so we can literally change the menu before every shift if we have to. So that's, the uncertainty of the economy is nerve wracking.

Speaker 1: 41:48

Yeah, I mean it sounds like you've got a good game plan, though You've got backup plans in place. You're getting everybody thinking strategically.

Speaker 2: 41:55

Yeah, and you know our chefs, our managers, our bar managers, our GMs they're really good, they have a great relationship with our vendors and it's like, listen, we know you guys don't control it, but when you get word let us know. And if we have to take something off the menu. I mean, a couple of years ago beef prices were so high and at that time our number one taco was a Sada and and we took it off the menu for the summer just because it's like guests complain, but it's like you want to pay $8 for a taco.

Speaker 1: 42:24

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:25

Like you don't. You say you do, but you don't.

Speaker 1: 42:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:28

And then, if you do, then you'll go on one of these Instagrams or whatever and rip us because we're charging $8 for a taco, yeah, or whatever, and rip us because we're charging eight bucks for a taco.

Speaker 1: 42:39

Yeah, what are you going to do if guest spend?

Speaker 2: 42:44

declines or guest traffic declines. You know we'll adapt. We're seeing the per person average, the spend that's down from last year. Luckily at Fish and Beer our foot traffic is up, which is good. Our numbers are up there. Ttw it's about even If everything declines, we just have to go with it. We have to change our model, so that might be. You know we're shrinking our menu at TTW a little bit. It's a big menu so we did a menu engineering and looked at everything so that'll be shrunk down. We'll probably. If we have to cut staff, we'll cut staff and then that's when that model of fast casual for TTW might come in, if we're really forced to do it might come in if we're really forced to do it.

Speaker 1: 43:42

Kevin, how do you preserve your energy and passion for being, as it just sounds like, you're constantly evolving and your team is too? How do you protect that energy?

Speaker 2: 43:50

Well, I have ADHD, so that helps. Um, my lavazza coffee helps. Okay, and honestly, I just love it. I love business, and I specifically the restaurant business. I love it. I just I've always loved it. I graduated high school 83. I wanted to go to chef school. My parents like chef school. No, I'll never forget if you have a. This is a short story, I promise. In 1983 I'm a senior in high school. I want to go to chef school. My brother and sister went to Indiana University. I was expected to go there. I wanted to be a chef. My dad, somehow he knew this chef at this restaurant and he's like, all right, I'm going to go talk to him. So I go talk to him. I came home I'm like, yep, I'm going to chef school. He's like didn't you, didn't he tell you how many hours he worked? I'm like, yeah, he works 60 hours a week. I'm like, dad, he's making 25 000 a year and he goes, but he's working 60 hours a week. I go you did you? Don't get it. He making 25 grand.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Dad's plan backfired.

Speaker 2: 44:59

And I loved it. I just you know I tried to get out a few times. I'll be honest.

Speaker 1: 45:03

I was at the point.

Speaker 2: 45:04

It's like F this, I'm going to go do something else, and then it's like I got to go back. I love it too much and you know there's different. I used to love being on the line in the rush and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 45:19

Um, I can't keep up with the crew anymore yeah I just can't and I get in their way and so I kind of back off and there's some time, days, I'll go in and I'll prep or play around with a new dish and man the kitchen. It's like I get home that night my knees hurt, my feet hurt, my toenails hurt, my fingernails hurt. So I'm like, all right, I'll, I'll do more of an office job. I like the creative aspect of it and that's what keeps me going.

Speaker 1: 45:49

Yeah, well, good for you for recognizing that you, you're getting in the team's way. I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of owners that don't think that way.

Speaker 2: 45:56

Well it's funny because the crew, the kitchen crew at Fish and Beer, they call me Tornado. And I'm like hey, that's a nice compliment Cause I go real fast and stuff. And they're like no, because you're a disaster. I went to my station one night and it's the messiest station because you know you're dipping, you're dipping the fish in in the flour and then the batter, and my station was trashed and they're just laughing at me and at the end of the night they're like you're okay, jefe? And I'm like thank you. And then someone said tornado. I'm like why tornado? And he told me I'm like oh, dude, that's not nice. But yeah, I realize what I'm good at and I realize what I'm not good at anymore, and what I'm good at is very little. So I just try to focus on that and have a big impact.

Speaker 1: 46:45

I love it. I love it. It's do as I say, not as I do, right.

Speaker 2: 46:50

Pretty much.

Speaker 1: 46:51

I love it. I love it. Well, kevin, thank you so much. This has just been awesome. It's so great. I'm so glad that we've been able to connect and be a part of this next step of your journey together in the coaching world, and just love hearing more about your insights and your passages comes through every time we're on a phone call or texting or whatever I feel it.

Speaker 2: 47:12

So I'll be cussing in a few hours, I'm sure, and me like what the F am I doing here? But at the end of the night I love it.

Speaker 1: 47:20

Yeah, I love it. Well, yeah, and when you're so connected to your purpose and your passion, it makes those those tough days seem not as tough, right?

Speaker 2: 47:27

Yeah, and it's really cool to see like this. I call it the next generation of 30 year olds.

Speaker 1: 47:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:32

You know, it's cool to see them like put their spin on things. Yeah, and take what I say. And it's like, all right, can I do this, try to try this? And it's like, hey, man, as well, as long as we come up with the end results, same, however you get there, is that that's on you? Yeah, so it's cool, I like it.

Speaker 1: 47:50

Good for you. Good for you for empowering your team that's, that's absolutely incredible and and being able to to take a step back the way that you have and just let your team shine and lead um, especially having multiple concepts. I know that's that's easier said than done.

Speaker 2: 48:04

It took a while, yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:06

Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you again for your time. Thanks for all the value and uh, I know we're going to chat tomorrow about uh on our coaching about some fears around recession and some things to do.

Speaker 2: 48:18

So, looking forward to that conversation, looking forward to it Awesome.

Speaker 1: 48:20

All right, my friend, I'll talk to you very soon.

Speaker 2: 48:22

All right, thank you, dear.

Speaker 1: 48:23

Thanks.

Speaker 2: 48:24

Bye-bye.