Christin Marvin 0:08

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Christin Marvin 0:52

94% of consumers purchasing non-alcoholic beverages in restaurants are also purchasing alcohol. Dana Bonelli has worked in the wine and spirits industry since 2003, having held national leadership roles for two major US importers, as well as executive-level distribution roles. She currently works as a portfolio director for the Wine Company of Minnesota, a family-owned wholesaler of fine wine, craft spirits and, most recently, adult non-alcohol products. She is passionate about the bargaining NA space and approaches her work and messaging to the on-premise trade around the philosophy and value proposition of inclusive hospitality. In this episode, we will cover topics such as the evolution of inclusive hospitality over the last 20 years. The different drink categories in the non-alcohol space. 20 years. The different drink categories in the non-alcohol space. Best practices on how to start your own NA program at your restaurant, the watchouts for kids ordering non-alcoholic drinks, and share some of our favorite brands in the space today.

Christin Marvin 2:00

Welcome to the no Hesitations podcast, the show where restaurant leaders learn tools, tactics and habits from the world's greatest operators. I'm your host, Christin Marvin, with Solutions by Christin. I've spent the last two decades in the restaurant industry and now partner with restaurant owners to develop their leaders and scale their businesses without wasting time and energy, so they can achieve work-life balance and make more money. You can now engage with me on the show and share topics you'd like to hear about, leadership, lessons you want to learn and any feedback that you have. Simply click the link at the top of the show notes and I'll give you a shout out on a future episode. Thanks so much for listening and I look forward to connecting. Hi, Dana, thank you so much for being here. Super excited to have you on the show today. Hey, kristen, hi, how are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm so good.

Christin Marvin 3:05

Thanks, I love. In your bio you talk about the concept of inclusive hospitality. Would you say a little bit more about what you mean by that and how the NA space is having an impact on creating a more inclusive environment for restaurant guests and staff?

Dana Bonelli8 3:24

Yeah, okay. So first of all, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk about this topic, which I think is so prescient right now in the space of hospitality and its collision, whether by accident or intentionally, with the NA space, which is, as we know, just growing by leaps and bounds right now and sort of blowing up, if you will I come from my origin story is like going all the way back to being a teenager working in restaurants. It's a long, long time ago now, but I learned about the hospitality industry long before I went into the world of drinks and working in the distribution world and at its core, you know, hospitality is, I think, pretty intrinsic for us as human beings. It's just this very, you know, sort of innate concept that we look to be friendly, we look to be genuine and authentic towards a stranger when we welcome them into, whether it's our home or our place of business, right? So?

Dana Bonelli8 4:29

this isn't complicated and hospitality can take different shapes and forms depending on the cultural and history of that, cultural implications and history of that culture. But at its core, worldwide, it is pretty basic. It's just the idea that you're creating a very generous sort of receptive environment for people who don't necessarily know each other immediately when they come into a public space. So we got that right. Everybody understands that, so I don't want to over explain it.

Dana Bonelli8 5:04

But when we bring in the idea of inclusivity into and marry it with the word hospitality, I think that there might be a little bit of a tendency right now to overcomplicate that, when in fact it's also just sort of taking the idea of hospitality into more of a hyperbolic state, hospitality into more of a hyperbolic state, right.

Dana Bonelli8 5:30

And when we hyphenate or we add the word inclusivity or inclusive hospitality and put the two together, it's just the idea that you would go above and beyond your normal way of being hospitable to your customer or your guest by making sure that you are kind of covering all of these bases. That does not exclude any one individual when you welcome them in, and this can mean so many things. You're probably already, as a restaurant operator, doing diligence around this when it comes to, you know, making sure that an elderly person is comfortable crossing the threshold of your establishment or a person with any type of needs, you know that they're going to be met. And so when we talk about the non-alcoholic space, it's an opportunity for us to be inclusive when we set the table literally for our guests. And so, yeah, it's doing diligence around that and really ultimately kind of doing a core values exercise as a business owner around what not only hospitality means to you and your team, but what the idea of making it totally inclusive could also mean.

Christin Marvin 6:44

Love it. So you've been in the game for a while. Take us back to 2003 and your start in the wine and spirits industry. How have you seen inclusivity and hospitality change over those years?

Shift to Inclusive Non-Alcoholic Beverages

Dana Bonelli8 7:01

Oh wow, okay, that's a good question. Oh wow, okay, that's a good question. Yeah, my story in hospitality actually goes back into the mid-90s. So being a teenager working in a broad lens in and around this conversation which is not to say that people were living back then- but the wine and spirits business back then was certainly not turning an eye towards, you know, broadening an offering for people outside of.

Dana Bonelli8 7:57

You know the sort of formal historical categories you know. Even when it comes to back then, when it came to learning about wine, for example, it was sort of a category that was shrouded in secrecy, very institutionalized, very much an old boys club. You really had to approach it academically and attack it from like, you know a textbook, like a literal. You had to have literal books, you know, to learn about it. And then you had to surround yourself by this you know sort of esoteric ivory tower group of elders who could teach you the way. And that's how I came up in the industry.

Dana Bonelli8 8:45

Honestly, I came up in the industry learning about wine and then later spirits, by just gaining access to a small group of people who had the knowledge that I sought to be transferred to me, right, and so of course, all of this changed with the advent of the iPhone and our ability to have a supercomputer on our person at all times. But yeah, in the olden days, you know it was an old boys club and you had to learn on the job and you had to surround yourself with the sort of an elite group of people who had that information and the power to transfer that information. Yeah, and you had to be accepted, right?

Christin Marvin 9:29

You had to be accepted into that group.

Dana Bonelli8 9:31

Yeah, yeah, and I just want to say that you know that group and, look, there are many people in that group in my experience who are very generous with me with their time and their knowledge, but ultimately it was a real patriarchal pool I decided to dive into and it is what it is.

Speaker 3 9:50

But you know.

Dana Bonelli8 9:51

fortunately that has changed, it has evolved. You know, inside of the industry there's a lot more equity from a gender standpoint. I would say it's been a slow climb. That all being said, it is completely different for young people coming into the industry now yeah.

Christin Marvin 10:10

So it's really impacted everybody in the industry. Right, it's impacted the products that are served to, that are offered from the suppliers to restaurants, both, you know, and on-premise and off-premise. There's been this huge shift that's happening now and and some people keep asking me, is NA a trend? And I say no, it's not a trend, it's a movement. This is here to stay. So get on board. This isn't something that's going to be hot for a couple months and then fade out, and so now you're in charge of building this massive NA portfolio for your business. When did you start to see that shift happen and realize that NA was something, was a category and area that you really wanted to put your time and focus into?

Dana Bonelli8 10:54

Yeah, it's a great question. It's hard for me to really pinpoint the exact. You know there certainly wasn't like a aha moment that I had personally or that you know, someone brought me all of this great data that I was able to, like, make a data driven decision around. You know, I really started paying attention to the NA space I would say in the second half of 2021. So you know, we're in the second more or less full calendar year of COVID. I think there were some early inklings, you know, not inside the industry per se, but just a groundswell of, you know, people in the US and culturally, where people were starting to sort of question their relationship with alcohol after the. I mean, look, we all know there was a lot of heavy drinking going on during 2020 and into 2021. And the industry data substantiates, you know, those consumption trends having grown substantially during that period of time. You know we won't get into why that happened today, but that all being said, like you know, it was a. It was a pretty good time to be a retailer in the alcohol industry those years.

Dana Bonelli8 12:09

So, late 21, you know, I started paying attention. I was starting to see beverages on the market that I didn't I wasn't able to sort of put in a tidy, sort of neat, existing bucket, categorically, things like functional beverages were starting to catch my eye, drinks that were geared towards, you know, perhaps, my demographic, like a middle-aged woman, you know, who was interested in consuming less sugar on the day to day, um, more transparency in labeling and then, certainly, uh, a bit of a sea change. I was starting to see, uh, that time, um, just moving in the direction, conversation around um, health and wellness and then, you know, ultimately mental health. So, big picture, I was starting to pick up on that. I'm certainly a target demographic for all of the wellness products that exist, Same, same, and my, yeah and my. You know my Instagram feed is my phone's listening to me right now it's chock full of all the goopy things and all of the woo things that money can buy. And so, you know, just as a consumer outside of my work in the drink space, you know I was the target audience for that. So, okay, my paying attention, you know, probably was accelerated by the ads that I was being targeted by on social media, um, but but yeah, I mean there was a lot happening. I mean there'd certainly been a good body of work in the on trade um, in the mixology community, in and around um, doing R and D behind the bar and not outsourcing that. And so lots of talented people were starting to work independently in the on-premise space, certainly in my market, developing the parts of the whole or the builds of ultimately what would become a non-alcoholic cocktail or a full-strength cocktail.

Dana Bonelli8 14:19

But those sometimes adaptogenic ingredients were being siloed and understood and we were starting to develop a nomenclature around like what are these plants?

Dana Bonelli8 14:30

What do they do for the body?

Dana Bonelli8 14:31

How do we ingest them?

Dana Bonelli8 14:33

And then, ultimately, how do they?

Dana Bonelli8 14:34

How could they wind up in a drink in a liquid form?

Dana Bonelli8 14:37

Right? So, getting getting outside of, like you know, the health and wellness space and then to into the on-premise trade and then ultimately retail of, like you know, the health and wellness space and into the on-premise trade and then ultimately retail. Of course, the advent, and like insurgence, of ready to drink also, I think, has propelled the idea that not only can we package these goods to consumers, but that a home bartender, whether they're making again a non-alcoholic cocktail or a full-strength cocktail with alcohol, could also incorporate some of these new ingredients, often plant-based, into their palette of ingredients. Looking ahead, we really got formally into the game in 2022 and started to put some intention behind not only bringing products to market, but starting to lead a conversation inside the trade, in and around the idea that there were simple two things that we could affect. One, the bottom line of our customers by being consultative to them in their beverage programs and highlighting the opportunity around non-alcoholic beverages and products. But also to ultimately widen the lens on this notion of inclusion and hospitality for that literal table setting for their guest.

Christin Marvin 16:08

I love it. I want to talk about, spend some time talking about the value proposition here, but I'd like to go back to the functional beverage category, because there it's, and I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about what the function, what a functional beverage is, and then the rest of the categories that are in the non-alcoholic space, because there's many, many of them.

Dana Bonelli8 16:29

Yeah, I mean a functional beverage at its core. It's pretty simple. It's a drink that is designed to have a specific health benefit to its consumer. Many of us already are consuming functional beverages unknowingly. So an energy drink, I mean, that's kind of the OG of the functional beverage world.

Christin Marvin 16:50

I'm not going to name names, but I'm sure we can all think of one it has an animal on the label we used to mix it with vodka? Yeah, my husband might work for the company.

Dana Bonelli8 16:58

Yeah, yeah, we used to mix it with vodka in the year 2000,. If you were, you know, 23 years old when that was happening like I was if you were, you know, yeah, or jager meister in my face 23 years old, uh, when that was happening, like I was, um, so you know.

Dana Bonelli8 17:09

So, energy drinks, for sure, um, you know, and and by proxy, sports drinks like gatorade is a functional beverage, if you know, because, like, we're trying to affect, we're trying to affect a health outcome by consuming, uh, an electrolyte based beverage, right, so anything that's going to help your health, help you out, help you, whatever cures what ails you, kind of thing.

Dana Bonelli8 17:33

But, as we've kind of gone into like the two and 3.0 mode on functional beverages, we're going above and beyond. Now we're talking about adaptogenic beverages and those are just drinks that have components that would help the nervous system regulate, help us manage stress. There are other functional beverages on the market now that would help us, for example, create a mood or a sense of, like a vibe, right, when we're not drinking. And so, um, yeah, there's a lot out there that, uh, you know, has come online even in the last year, uh, in the NA space. That would help, um, I don't want to use the word help but, like you know, give the consumer the opportunity, uh, in their evening, to, instead of choosing alcohol, which is, as we know, a depressant, choose a mood lifting drink that doesn't have alcohol but still gives us. You know the ritual around the way we consume alcohol and you know potentially like ease social tension or give. Give you a little bit of energy or lift, et cetera.

Christin Marvin 18:43

Give you a little bit of energy or lift, et cetera. Hi everybody, we're taking a quick break to offer you an exciting opportunity. If you're a restaurant owner or manager looking to enhance your leadership skills, I invite you to join my 12-Day Leadership Challenge. In just 12 days, you'll receive a guided packet with actionable strategies to transform your leadership in less than five minutes a day. Join the challenge and the community, and grab your copy at christinmarvin. com/ 12 days. Now let's get back to the show.

Expanding Non-Alcoholic Beverage Categories

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Dana Bonelli8 20:24

Other OG functional beverages would include, like herbal tea. So it's a big category and we've been consuming these beverages for a long time. But again, just without attaching like jargon, right? Yeah, so sorry. You had a second question for me.

Christin Marvin 20:47

Yeah, would you talk about the other categories beyond functional beverages in the non-alcoholic space?

Dana Bonelli8 20:52

Yeah, so this is interesting because I think it's a very easy and sort of normal tendency for us to just sort of think of not elk or NA, but what does it mean? Right? And it's awesome that we have now subcategories that we want to divide and conquer across, because it used to be that we could check a box as a, as a certainly as a distributor or a restaurant owner by saying, yes, we have an NA offering and that that includes soft drinks and, you know, a dusty bottle of non-alcoholic beer that we keep not even cold and there are two people that work at the restaurant who could put their hands on it. Right, ok, so that's the olden days. The future and this will change literally by the time you timestamp this podcast the future is like that there's all kinds of cool and amazing stuff going on. So we just talked about functional beverages. They are technically a subcategory inside of, like, the big NA bucket. Right, you have ready to drinks. So sometimes that ready to drink if you live in the state of Minnesota, like I do, could be cannabis or hemp derived based beverages. Legal here will probably be legal elsewhere sooner than later, certainly in states that allow the sale of cannabis and marijuana.

Dana Bonelli8 22:32

You've got ready to drinks also that are technically what we would call cocktail cognates, or you know, being direct analogs to a cocktail. One of the most famous out there, the one that created sort of the ready to drink non-alcoholic cocktail phenomenon St Agrestis, phony Negroni, my favorite Is a perfect example of a product that was built for restaurants single serve, zero waste and a straight up a dupe for the real thing. Many people actually can't tell if this particular ready to drink cocktail cognate ready, you know, is a non-alcoholic drink, so that's a lot of words is a non-alcoholic drink. So, so that's a. It's a lot of words. All that being said, it's a. It's a beautiful subcategory that now exists. So, um, I refer to it as a cocktail cognate, but we're still now in the ready to drink world, if that makes sense. Uh, then you have, of course, de-alcoholized wine. Uh, so you know what this is. It's just like de-alcoholized beer. Uh, it is started out as a regular wine and then, through the magic of reverse osmosis, had the alcohol spun out of it and nets down to 0.5 typically, although some of them are now zero, zero, uh.

Dana Bonelli8 23:42

And then you have this sort of big, ubiquitous group called Wine Alternatives, and Wine Alternatives are gaining momentum as options for people who don't want a de-alcoholized wine for whatever reason, but they still want to enjoy the ritual of wine. They want to enjoy fruit acid tannin ultimately an adult beverage with food. So so that's a big spectrum. Again, yeah, you know, if we were having this conversation six months from now, I'd probably be forgetting something. So, just to recap, you've got, um, you've got ready to, drinks. Some of them are cocktail cognates. Uh, some of them are more in the soft drink world. Um, some of them have uh of them have the addition of THC derived from cannabis. We've got functional beverages. We have de-alcoholized wine and beer, and then we have what we would call wine alternatives.

Christin Marvin 24:39

So there's, there's really something for everyone here. I love you know. When you were talking about the functional beverages, I was immediately thinking this is a perfect opportunity for people to offer a functional beverage during the daytime, right? Breakfast, lunch service. Coming from a restaurant perspective, it's a huge industry, right? It's one of the top booming trends of 2024. Nicky Sani, owner of Groovy, just posted a link this morning on LinkedIn releasing some stats around how big the industry is so far in 2024. And this is as of the end of July. The industry is at four hundred twenty three million dollars, so it's the rest of the year tracks pretty big there. It's reaching close to a billion dollars, which is incredible, right there's so much opportunity here.

Dana Bonelli8 25:31

Yeah, and and again, with the caveat that we're talking about um. You know I'm not trying to be hung up on jargon, but we're talking about the adult non-alcohol space, so this would exclude the, the classic categories of soft drinks like this is not a diet mountain Dew conversation.

Christin Marvin 25:49

Correct, right, right and yeah, and so he was surveying, really looking at data for his brands, right, the non-alcoholic beer, which is really the force driving the market here, and then non-alcoholic cocktails and wine, or not not cocktails, but wine that they offer as well.

Christin Marvin 26:05

Talk a little bit about when you're in this consultative consultancy I can't say, say the word. When you're consulting with restaurants, what is the value add for them? And I'd love to hear what, if they're, how it's being received are they? Are they coming in arms wide open here? Are they saying I'll make it ourselves, don't worry about it, we don't want your product? Or is there pushback here? So what's the value add for restaurants?

Dana Bonelli8 26:31

Yeah, I mean, let's go back to the data. You know, if we're business people who are just being data driven and you know my job is to make data driven decisions like any business leader right, we're collectively working in a space to your point of nearing one billion dollars in the United States, so there's a lot of money on the table. There's a lot of revenue and profitability that can impact anybody's bottom line if they want to dip their toe in the water. Another amazing data point you know to kind of substantiate, like why is this happening? Um, I love this stat. This is this is from our friends at the adult, uh, non-alcoholic beverage association, the ANBA. They've got a great website, um, if you haven't checked it out, um, but they've come to the table, um, at the end of the first quarter, citing, like, the audience and defining the audience around these products. Obviously, people are spending a lot of money on this. So who are these people? It turns out that it's everyone, because they were able to collate this data and tell us that 94% of consumers who are purchasing in the adult NA space you know, apropos to our conversation today 94% of those consumers also consume slash, buy alcohol. So that's pretty much everybody, every human being with a bank account, is buying inside this space. Many of them have long histories of buying products inside of this space. So I just want to put that data out there because, yeah, it's compelling, it's something to pay attention to, if you're not already.

Dana Bonelli8 28:22

You know, in our role as a distributor, you know again, we've made the decision that we want to be leaders in this space. We want to be the people out in front of educating around the category. It does require a lot of diligence and education because we still see, you know, despite the fact that again, I'm in Minnesota, which is ground zero for the THC beverage space which is on fire, it is going to be a $400 million category in the state of Minnesota this year. So just to say the door has been kicked wide open on the NA beverage conversation generally. But that, all being said, adult NA writ large, we still find that we have to have sort of the origin value proposition conversation with most of our customers. We work with about 500 to 600.

Dana Bonelli8 29:20

It varies every year because of opening and closing in the on-premise space, but we work with, call it, about 500 restaurants in the state of Minnesota, many of the merchantsgers, bars too, and I would say that 70% of the time we are not only the first distributor to come in with a compact offering that covers all of the subcategories, but we're the also the first distributor that wants to take the time to have the conversation around, one, the value proposition on the space and two and that would include a conversation around hospitality and the concept of inclusive hospitality. But two, the bottom line impact to that restaurant, to that restaurant. You know, it is one at a time that we turn them, and most of our, most of our customers who get on board and decide to dip their toe in the water later, thank us for bringing them products that are pretty risk-free, often single serve, so that there's no worry about waste or dumping products down the drain. But yeah, generally, kristen, we are still kind of doing the heavy lift with the trade.

Christin Marvin 30:44

So, Dana, I want to go back to something really quick that you mentioned. You said this isn't just a Gen Z thing. Everyone is drinking non-alcoholic. I have some friends that have said you know what, when I go out, I like to have, I like to start with an NA beverage and then maybe I'll go into some alcohol with dinner. Are you seeing that in your region?

Dana Bonelli8 31:04

We for sure are. Just, you know, again, there's a bigger conversation, I think, happening societally around moderation and mindfulness, with alcohol consumption and adult NA beverages are the perfect, you know, gateway for people to do what you're describing. They're actually technically being now being called switchers oh yeah, which I think is cute. Okay, so, let's just switchers. But yeah, the switcher is a real, is a real customer. The switcher is the person who, for whatever reason, maybe choosing to drink less, maybe choosing not to drink, maybe they are a switcher Monday through Friday and on Saturday they like to drink, and then on Sunday they don't drink at all. Okay, so let's just talk about that consumer. So when we have them sitting at our table in our restaurant or our bar, the goal, the goal is all it's the same. We want to upsell, like let's sell dessert, let's sell herbal tea, let's sell dessert wine, let's sell an aperitif, let's you know, let's get as many beverages on the table as possible across across the course of their dining experience. So why then would we not serve the needs of the switcher Right and also allow them to to feel like they are adults out at night spending money in a restaurant and not, you know, having the sort of meager choices of club soda with lime or a tonic that has a garnish in it, which can be beautiful, don't get me wrong, but that sort of those sort of staples of the NA list that are.

Dana Bonelli8 32:56

You know what I kind of think of as like the equivalent of being a vegetarian in the 90s.

Dana Bonelli8 32:58

And you know, lucky you, everyone, everyone else is having a steak or like lobster at the table and your, your option is a veggie burger, and so you've been sort of like moved to the kids table in that experience.

Dana Bonelli8 33:12

So so, yeah, back to that person who is moderating, for whatever reason we know, regardless of their demographic or their reasons. So, from Gen Z all the way to the boomer, the common denominator for people sitting there spending money in your restaurant is that they want flavor and they want a flavor experience that isn't going to disappoint them or subtract from their overall experience. So I put that out there for food for thought, especially given the enormous range of options that we now have. And then to sort of come back to that value proposition conversation, we have done the math on our side and often, in our role as consultants to our customers, we want to demonstrate that the poor cost is actually more profitable on adult single-serve NA products than alcohol, and alcohol has long been the profit center of most restaurants, and so the net-net is actually even better in adult NA than it is in the traditional alcohol profit and loss sheet.

Christin Marvin 34:28

That sounds a little scary for the alcohol industry.

Dana Bonelli8 34:33

Perhaps Perhaps. Uh but you know, at the end of the day, um you know, it's still super profitable, yeah, so, and we'll, and we'll continue to be the preponderance of like the business right.

Navigating Non-Alcoholic Beverage Programs

Christin Marvin 34:49

Yeah, I mean, I am. I am talking to clients that are seeing their liquor sales drop significantly, yeah, Um, three to four to 5%, right, and and having to pivot now and and this is new, something new that they've never had to deal with before. They're like I've never. You know, a couple operators I've spoken with have said we've never had to market our bar program. We, you know what? How do we do this? What do we do differently? So I love that. I love that you are having success with this, and you mentioned some of the restaurants that you're working with. They're saying, you know, they're coming back to you saying thank you for this. What, what is contributing to the success of the NA program in the restaurant?

Dana Bonelli8 35:28

Yeah, so it starts with staff education. Typically we like to spend time when, when we can and you know this goes back to our basic fundamentals around training, around alcohol. It is no different. It is in our role in supporting our customers. When we are doing training on our alcohol products, we are also simultaneously training on the value proposition of the adult non-alcoholic products that we're selling as well. Selling as well, you know, and then you know serving it up, if you will, as you know a way to upsell the ticket and helping the server, helping the bartender understand that it shouldn't be an afterthought but it should be part of the presentation of the beverage program. So when you leave the list at the table, you know you're comfortable navigating a conversation around what is a and then insert functional beverage what is a phony Negroni.

Dana Bonelli8 36:29

What is? How is de-alcoholized wine made? I didn't know questions, honestly.

Christin Marvin 36:43

They're second nature to us around alcohol, but not so much, not quite yet, around the non-alcoholic offerings Such an opportunity to educate and offer additional hospitality and create a different, memorable experience for somebody, which is so cool. Now we talked about something pretty interesting last time. This is on. You know, family of four sits down at the table. There's a non-alcohol category on the menu. Johnny, eight-year-old, orders a phony Negroni. What do you do?

Dana Bonelli8 37:22

Yeah, what do you do? This is a tough one, it's a tough one for parents and it's a tough one for restaurant owners. I will say that while I am not a lawyer and I'm not giving legal advice here, I do recommend, if you are a restaurant owner, that you check with your local laws and if you are a restaurant owner, that you check with your local laws, which are often dictated at a municipal level, around the service of adult non-alcoholic products. Case in point NA beer. It's been around for a very long time and it really gives us good. It's a good guidepost for everything else.

Dana Bonelli8 38:03

Okay, so you know this raises the conversation how are you marketing your adult non-alcohol products on your menu? You know so. It of course depends on your restaurant concept, because not every restaurant has a standalone drink list. Sometimes that drink list is, if it's a really casual restaurant, just wrapped into the food menu, it doesn't take up a lot of real estate on that document. But if you are an establishment who has a proper beverage program and you have a cocktail list and you have a wine by the glass list and you have a wine by the glass list, my recommendation is that you segment the adult non-alcoholic offering on that list which is going to be handed to the adults at the table versus the non-adults. Okay, so that's one sort of protective measure, because there are laws out there that say you cannot sell a non-alcoholic beer to a person under the age of 18. It's not true everywhere. This is always at the state and then city level, so you do need to do diligence on that. If you have questions, you can contact local lawmakers and or your insurance company, because they will be able to give you very clear information about that. But, yeah, my recommendation is to pull it into the list that you would give to the person who is old enough to buy alcohol in the first place at that table. I don't think most operators would want to see a 12-year-old literally sitting at a bar drinking a non-alcoholic beer. But again, that's a personal decision for the business owner.

Dana Bonelli8 39:50

Other tips many of the most progressive lists out there are showing the net ABV next to the beverage ABV uh next to the beverage. So, whether that is a, uh, a Manhattan or a phony Negroni, uh, they're going to show that net AB, abv and then they mix it all together so that, um, when I'm ordering my phony Negroni and it's sitting next to the Manhattan or the old fashioned um, I'm also feeling included when I point at the list and order my zero alcohol cocktail. Um, but that everyone has full clarity on which ride they're getting on. If you will, um, yeah, then of course there's. We all know there's a big trend inside of the slow and low ABV categories as well, and so if that's part of your beverage program and you're trying to position a lower ABV cocktail, it only stands to reason that you would traverse from zero all the way to the highest proof or highest ABV cocktail on that list. Hope that makes sense.

Christin Marvin 41:01

Yeah, totally no, and I love the point that you made about, again, inclusivity of where you're placing those NAs on the menu, right, because I think it is a little.

Christin Marvin 41:10

It can be a little uncomfortable for people that are not ready to start, you know, telling their friends or family or coworkers or whoever they're dining with, hey, I'm not drinking, and so when they look to maybe the bottom right corner of the menu, they're kind of pointing in that direction of like, here are where my options are. But if it's in, if it's just included in the normal categories, then you know it's it's so much more comfortable, I think. So there's, there's so many options available and I really appreciate your insight and, you know, taking the time to educate the audience on all the different categories and everything that's available to them. But this is a huge category. Again, I think it's going to be something that's that's with us for a long time. For restaurants again, the ones that you've seen success with and if somebody, if a restaurant, is listening to this show and they're really curious about starting an NA program, what would you suggest they do? Like, where are they going to get the best bang for their buck out of the gate?

Dana Bonelli8 42:05

So, you know, I always like to recommend that people sort of walk before they run. Do some research in your home market. I always think it's interesting to R&D with your competitors, but also with your peers, right? So take a look If there's a you know particular restaurant in your market, or even nationally you know most restaurants have their lists online Do some, do a little, do a little research, go out, go experience a meal in someone else's establishment, someone you respect and see how they're doing it, especially if they've been highlighted as a leader in this space. So, you know, good old fashion R&D is a great place to start. But yeah, the walk before you run piece. You don't need to throw the kitchen sink at this right away. You know, dip a toe in the water across the subcategories so that you have representation.

Dana Bonelli8 43:04

I would recommend having, if you don't already put a non-alcoholic beer of quality on your list. There's, there is a. Just any beer is amazing. Now that you there are so many quality options, many local breweries in your hometown probably are bringing something to market that is truly excellent. You could probably put it on draft and have it ice cold, which is where it tastes the best. So, you know, check that out like challenge yourself a little bit to go outside of the commoditized products, which are also excellent. I'm a huge fan of Guinness, I'm a huge fan of Stella. You know they are very good products. But if supporting local is important to you like, do check out your backyard, on the micro brewery scene, you know, to see if there's something great because you might be able to support, you know, a business in your neighborhood by doing that. So you know, check that beer box, put some intention behind it.

Dana Bonelli8 44:04

Next, find a great de-alcoholized wine. Take a look and try to find something that comes in a single serve format like a 200 milliliter, because then your risk is way reduced. You're not going to open that bottle of sparkling NA and then watch, you know, the bartender three days later dump it out because it's lost carbonation. So you know, walk before you run there, but find something that you know hits your poor cost model in that space but is well done. And again, there are great options out there. My pro tip here is that the sparkling de-alcoholized wines tend to be, in my opinion, the best on the market. I really favor Prima Pave. It comes in a 200 ml. But check that out. De-alcoholized wine can be great. They're dry and, again, the sparkling versions tend to mask the flaws that are a little easier to detect with still versions. So do look at that and then find yourself a cocktail cognate.

Dana Bonelli8 45:13

I think I've given the plug for St AgrestisPhony Negroni now four times. It's funny, negroni now four times. But it really is that good and you really cannot go wrong by putting this product on your list. That being said, it is a bitter drink and not all human beings are attracted to a bitter flavor profile, so it can be a little polarizing. People either love it or it's just not for them. But it is a great. It's a great option.

Dana Bonelli8 45:40

Wine alternatives there's a lot of great single serves out there. Proxies has cans. They're marvelous and again, you know at the risk of sounding like an old, old industry guard person it's sold and you know it's it's, it's, it's sold once you bring that can to the table and pour it into an elegant glass next next to the can, if that's how you want to serve it. So I would look at that. Above and beyond that, you know, if doing some R and D is important or you have a more progressive list, you know, then I would suggest you want to move into some house made options again that are lower in sugar, and then also take a look at the functional beverage space. There's a lot of cool stuff on the market. Three Spirit is beautiful. Curious Elixirs, which is really marketed to the on-premise segment, has some really beautiful options.

Dana Bonelli8 46:38

Many of these products are being served at the best restaurants in the US at this point. So they've been vetted by, like you know, the Somme community. They've been vetted by some of the most discerning chefs. So, even looking at some of those lists, you know what is the French Laundry doing, what is you know what is Eleven Madison Park doing, because they have all had to go down this rabbit hole and serve the most discerning customers. So, yeah, that's my tip in terms of research. If you can hitch your wagon to a distributor that can help guide you, like the wine company, that's also a huge benefit to you because you know if you trust that distributor and they've got the expertise to um, you could outsource this list to them. That's another resource that you should consider yeah, absolutely, and I agree with you.

Christin Marvin 47:28

Craft, um, craft beer is really driving the market right now in the na space, which is awesome, and there's so many delicious offerings out there. I love the sparkling, the single service. It's so great, it's's so smart for restaurants. I'll put all the links to everything that Dana just mentioned in the show too, so you can quick reference those. Dana, how can people get a hold of you if they want to learn more and if they want to work with you?

Dana Bonelli8 48:02

the state of minnesota, kristin, uh. So unfortunately I'm not able to affect anyone's business outside of the state of minnesota at the distribution level. I can be reached at dana at the wine companynet. So dana at the wine companynet, um. So if you're in minnesota, we're here to help um outside of minnesota. Just at a consulting level.

Future of Non-Alcoholic Hospitality

Dana Bonelli8 48:16

I'm always happy to talk shop with industry peers and help guide other distributors who want to invest in this space and share what we've learned so far. We've certainly made some mistakes already. We've also had some just tremendous successes. That being said, I encourage whether you're a restaurant operator and owner, or you're running a beverage program or you're on the distribution side, to take a very serious look at this space. Come on in the water's warm. We're going to be doing this from here on out. I don't think that this is a passing fad or a trend that will be punctuated by 2024, 2025. 10 years from now, this will be the new normal and for those of us who are invested early and doing the pioneer work you know so far, all I have to say is like I'm here to testify that it is gratifying work. It is not a heavy lift, so don't fear it. There's a lot of opportunity and I feel just a tremendous tailwind as we move further into the global space.

Christin Marvin 49:29

Yeah, I love it. Dana, thanks for all the work that you're doing in the space and for the industry. It's just incredible. Thanks again for being here today, taking the time to work with me not once, but twice. Really appreciate that. I'm glad we were able to get all of our tech stuff figured out this time, so we'll stay connected and talk to you very soon. That's going to do it for us this week. Everybody, please share this show with anyone in the restaurant industry who could benefit and we will talk to you next week. You