Christin Marvin: 0:08

There is a serious retention problem in the restaurant industry right now. A recent poll I did on LinkedIn showed 60% of restaurants are only retaining their managers for six to 12 months. Recognizing the significance of this challenge, I wanted to provide you, the listener, with a valuable resource today aimed at proactively addressing and extending this retention timeframe. The first 90 days of a restaurant manager's transition are a critical window for making strategic decisions, building a strong team, ensuring financial stability and creating a positive guest experience. Successful management during this period sets the stage for long-term success in our highly competitive industry. Today, mark Maynard is going to share with us how he's found success in creating 90-day plans for his managers over his 30-plus years in the industry and tell us about the one common mistake new leaders make in their new role. Stick around, you're going to want to listen to this.

Christin Marvin: 1:11

Welcome to the No Hesitations podcast, the show where restaurant leaders learn tools, tactics and habits from the world's greatest operators. I am your host, kristen Marvin. With Solutions by Christin, I've spent the last two decades in the restaurant industry and now partner with restaurant owners to develop their leaders and scale their businesses without wasting time and energy, so they can achieve work-life balance and make more money. This podcast is sponsored by ScheduleFly. Schedulefly provides a simple, web-based and app-based restaurant employee scheduling software, backed by legendary customer service. If you are using pen paper, excel or fancy scheduling software with tons of bells and whistles that you don't use, schedulefly is perfect for your business. When I was a regional manager handling seven locations, schedulefly was our go-to for scheduling. It's, hands down, the easiest platform that I've ever worked with, and their employee scheduling tool is awesome for shooting out mass messages about crucial restaurant updates. Visit ScheduleFlycom and mention the no Hesitations podcast to learn more and get 10% off. I hope you enjoy this episode. Hi Mark, thanks so much for being here today. How are you?

Mark Maynard: 2:41

Hi Christin, it's great to be here, really happy to be here.

Christin Marvin: 2:44

Absolutely, I am, you know, we were able to connect gosh.

Mark Maynard: 2:50

Maybe it's been a month ago now, or a little bit longer.

Christin Marvin: 2:51

Yeah, on LinkedIn and loved hearing your story. I'm obviously a big fan of what you do and your former company and I'm so excited to share your story today, and you and I are on a similar journey right With both being entrepreneurs now, so we're building a little support system, which is incredible and much needed, as you know, in this world.

Mark Maynard: 3:11

So we're recovering hospitality industry professionals.

Christin Marvin: 3:16

Absolutely, and you know I love you reached out when we decided to do the show and said you know, here's a list of topics we can talk about, and the one that really stuck out was this concept of 90-day transitional plans, and it's something I'm super passionate about and just really excited to take a deep dive today and learn about your experience with them and what's made them successful and talk about some common pitfalls that you've seen in your career too, with transitional plans, because I know I've fallen on my face before.

Mark Maynard: 3:49

Right. Yeah, we all have right Right. The purpose is have people not make the same mistakes that we made.

Christin Marvin: 3:55

Exactly, exactly right. I love it. Would you kick us off today by sharing a little bit about your hospitality background and then what you're up to today?

Mark Maynard: 4:04

sharing a little bit about your hospitality background and then what you're up to today. Sure, I guess I'll do a reverse. So right now I'm a consultant based in New York City and I work with anyone in the service sector. So I have stores, restaurants, I actually have a museum as a client, and one of the things I say my job is is to narrow the gap between the company's dreams, or the founder's dreams, and their ability to actually execute on it. So what that typically means is me sort of understanding what the purpose is of that business or the founder and then helping to create systems and processes to make that happen.

Christin Marvin: 4:43

Beautiful Making, my heart sing.

Mark Maynard: 4:45

Sounds easy, yeah.

Christin Marvin: 4:48

Depending on how large that gap is right.

Mark Maynard: 4:50

Right, Exactly, and it can be large. And self-awareness is a big thing that we talk about early on, and my foundation was 30 years at Danny Meyer's Union Square Hospitality Group. 30 years at, uh, Danny Myers union square hospitality group, um, uh, where I started as a host, having no interest in the restaurant industry, uh, and ended up as a managing partner in a few of our uh businesses, Um, and so I left in 2022, so you can do the math count back 30 years, Um and uh, and that was really an incredible journey.

Christin Marvin: 5:27

Mark, was that your I mean 30 years with that group? Was that where you spent your the majority of your time in hospitality, or was there something before that?

Mark Maynard: 5:36

Yeah, well, actually a good question. My mother was a chef, so I grew up working in restaurants, like so many people. Um, I just never saw it as a career. Um, I had zero interest. You know, my father was a dentist and my mother was a chef, and there were two things they told me don't ever go into dentistry or restaurants. So so, oh well, um and uh. So I I landed at Union Square Cafe, initially in 1992, only because I was working for an architect.

Mark Maynard: 6:12

I studied landscape architecture at Cornell, who has a good hospitality program, but I wasn't part of it, and I came to New York City after a couple of years of travel after graduation, which is pretty amazing and I came to New York to work for an architect, and I was working in Chelsea, which is a neighborhood of New York City, and I was only working, I think, like 25 hours a week, and so, like I had done in college and in high school, I needed a little extra cash, and so I applied for restaurant jobs.

Mark Maynard: 6:50

Actually, that's not true. I applied for one restaurant job that was the host at Union Square Cafe, and at the time Union Square wasn't really famous. It was a very good neighborhood restaurant. And this young guy, danny Meyer, was turning heads a little bit, but it was still just a really good neighborhood restaurant and I applied as a host, took the job and for two years I did both hosting and landscape architecture and I think that's kind of what we're going to talk about today. A little bit is how my experience there forced a decision that I wasn't intending to make, where I said you know, I'm actually going to drop my intended career and start this new one.

Christin Marvin: 7:37

Yeah, I love that. And when you and I connected, I threw out a name Michael that I had worked with at the Broadmoor, and you'd said you were able to work with him too for a short time, which is just so fun. This world is so small.

Mark Maynard: 7:49

Yeah, Michael Seznec was my boss, and when he left I got his job. So thank you, Michael. So I appreciate that.

Christin Marvin: 7:58

I was not that lucky. I was really gunning for his job, yeah right. I was 25 and thought I knew a lot more than I knew. So, anyway, good lessons. Would you talk a little bit about the moment that you knew you were ready for change, because being with a company for 30 years is just incredible and, I think, really unheard of in this business. What was that moment for you where you said, okay, I'm ready to go out on my own.

Mark Maynard: 8:22

What was that moment for you where you said okay, I'm ready to go out on my own. So I've never been a huge risk taker, or I didn't think I was. It turns out I am, and many of my friends kind of reminded me Mark, you've done some kind of crazy things in your life that you didn't think were high risk, but they were. But, like so many people, the pandemic was just just exhausting and, um, you know, the company was changing, the world was changing, the industry was changing and and I was fried, and and so it was, um, it was time to go. You know, think that's.

Mark Maynard: 9:03

Um, I don't think I was getting the joy out of it that I, you know, wanted to and, in my sort of soul searching it, it had less to do with union square hospitality group and more to do with just doing the same, or, you know, doing pretty much the same thing for a long time, and and I needed, needed a fresh start. And so, um, I really took like nine months off and and really reflected and and traveled a lot and rode my bike a lot and, you know, spent time with my family, my you know, all different parts of my family, which was, you know, something I hadn't done in many, many years as a restaurant leader and then it became very clear that I needed to sort of take what I had learned and share that with other people.

Christin Marvin: 9:51

Yeah, I did something similar when I left the industry from the operational side. I knew I wanted to do something different. I knew I wanted to stay connected with the industry because I loved it so much. But I was also fried and took when we moved and took three months off and I think it really took me a full three months of same thing, like hiking, being outdoors every day, just calming down and slowing down for my brain to start build enough capacity to go. Okay, I feel like I'm ready to open a restaurant again or something's right in a business right now.

Mark Maynard: 10:25

And you've kind of made that one of your central themes, which on LinkedIn and in your consulting, and I think that's helpful because there's a lot of people going through what you've gone through.

Christin Marvin: 10:37

Yeah, For sure. Let's talk about transition a little bit. How did you again, being with the same company for 30 years, right? You experienced a lot. You took a lot of risks.

Mark Maynard: 10:48

Right.

Christin Marvin: 10:49

How did you prepare, in addition to kind of taking this break and reconnecting with family and getting back to health and things like that how did you prepare for your transition into creating your own business?

Mark Maynard: 11:02

Wow, that's a good question. Creating your own business Wow, that's a good question. So you know, one of the things that when you are in the position of giving advice or or leading people, is that you have to remember that it also applies to you, um and the best of teaching what we need to learn right.

Mark Maynard: 11:19

Exactly, you know, and so I um. First of all, just really being able to just press pause was somewhat unnatural for me, and just giving myself space and time to think was really helpful. But what I did is I started calling people who had done something similar. My brother has been a consultant for I don't know 20 years, so I talked to him a lot. A good friend of mine from Union Square Hospitality Group, susan Salgado. She and I worked together for 16 or 17 years. She had gone out on her own uh, like five years before I did, and she was like one of the best mentors you could ever have. Um and other people. You know just where I really just asked. You know what's it like, um, and you know I I've been collecting a salary for 30 years. You know like that's. So this was the first time since I was 24 years old that I wasn't collecting a salary.

Christin Marvin: 12:30

Same for me?

Mark Maynard: 12:31

Yeah, I was 24 when, I got into management, yeah, and, and so that was pretty intense, um, and I think so. What I learned is that you know a few rules, um, one of my mantras for myself, and one of those advice things is, you know, is do the work. Um, and so, for me, what do the work means is understand what your motivation is, um, understand what you aren't good at, uh, understand what you are good at and how you can improve at it. Um and so like. An example is something like you know, I'm good at math, but I'd never had to do accounting. I've always, I've always been surrounded by smart accountants, right, so I did. I think every QuickBooks webinar you could think of, you know and I know that sounds kind of goofy, but I was going to do it. You know, I'm a single. I'm a single uh, you know person in business. I don't want to have to hire an accountant.

Christin Marvin: 13:25

You know what I mean.

Mark Maynard: 13:26

One day, when I have a firm I'd love to, but that was an example of something where I wouldn't trust myself opening a business until I really could understand how the money worked.

Mark Maynard: 13:37

I was always great at generating revenue, reviewing P&Ls, working with the marketing team, but I'd never had to do 100% of all the formulas and everything to figure out how it worked, um. So I did a lot of stuff like that. You know, um branding I worked with a great branding firm, um. I didn't really have to do human resources, cause I'm a human, I'm the only human resource here and then a whole lot of breaking out of my comfort zone, which is reaching out to people, which is something that when you work for a famous company, everyone comes to you, and so I just I can't believe how much tea I drank, how many glasses of wine I had, how many breakfasts or lunches I had with people. You know that I was kind of peripherally involved with um over the last you know a couple of decades and just listening, my God I I mean just listen to so many stories.

Christin Marvin: 14:37

It was great Um isn't it magical what happens when you start putting out there, to your existing network and even to new people, what your intentions are and what your goals are and what your vision?

Mark Maynard: 14:50

is.

Christin Marvin: 14:50

Isn't it amazing, the information that floods and the support. I think I in the beginning I thought man, everybody's going to be so guarded, they're not going to want to share their success with me and and the how, and it has been the complete opposite. I've had probably 500, over 500 conversations and 499 of them have been absolutely magical, and I take something away. I may not, you know, I may not take that. You know, apply that lesson right away. But I know five, 10, 15 years down the road, you know I'm going to be looking back at that conversation and and being really happy that I had it.

Mark Maynard: 15:24

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's so. It's interesting, I use the word purpose a lot, you know, like how we need to be intentional with what our purpose is, and I actually have. I have a little whiteboard right in front of me here and and you know my company, which is me I have a purpose and and the purpose is to empower people to exceed their potential and that which isn't necessarily supposed to make sense, um, but why I said that is that is a way for me to remember that I'm always here to serve other people, um, whether they're paying clients or people who you know. I do a lot of work with Cornell and NYU and Columbia Business School, and so if I can help them reach their potential, even if they're, you know, 21-year-old students or whether they're, you know, 50-year-old billionaires, I'm happy to help anyone. I love it, and I just always try to remind myself of that and I think about how many people did that for me.

Christin Marvin: 16:25

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty awesome. Let's let's dive into this idea of the 90 day transition plan for leaders. What is important to you about this topic? Why do you want to talk about it today?

Mark Maynard: 16:37

So I want to.

Mark Maynard: 16:39

I wanted to talk about it because I think it's something that a lot of people just believe happens that someone gets promoted or someone gets hired from the outside, and it could be they're a server, or it could be they're a new manager, it doesn't really matter, or it could be an even more senior role, and without intentionality, there are so many opportunities to screw it up, and so it's something that we, as leaders and as organizations, need to document and to the real minute details.

Mark Maynard: 17:22

So it feels natural to the person on the receiving end, and and and I'll give you, I'll just give you a tiny little example, which is probably not even you know necessarily what you were thinking of when we did, when we held interviews at Union Square Hospitality Group. If I came in so assuming they were in person, so if someone came in to interview and they said, hi, I'm here to meet with Mark for an interview, it wasn't just nice if the bartender said may I offer you a glass of water. It was written into a sequence of service that we had for our hiring process.

Christin Marvin: 18:03

I love that.

Mark Maynard: 18:04

Because we wanted to make sure that from the very first interaction that person had with a member of our team, they were offered something for them. And that's an example of something. You can't just rely on someone's good nature or chance. So I always early, and so if I saw when I greeted someone, or, you know, when I came and we went down to a table and I interviewed them, if they didn't have a glass of something in front of them, I would say, by the way, can I, may I get you a glass of water? And I was actually testing the system.

Christin Marvin: 18:46

Yeah.

Mark Maynard: 18:47

And that was my way to make sure the feedback loop was working. They said, oh no, no, no, the bartender was so nice, she already, she already offered me something.

Christin Marvin: 18:55

That's so funny. I also I didn't. I didn't build a system in for that. I absolutely love that, but it reminded me. Whenever somebody would come into interview, I would always let the host know, or whoever you know. The front door team know, hey, there's an interview coming, so that they weren't surprised. But then I'd also say I want to know what your interaction's like with this person.

Mark Maynard: 19:15

Yeah, I love that.

Christin Marvin: 19:16

Was this person kind to you, Right? Because it's just they're strangers, right and then? So I'd always get that feedback from them, which I loved.

Mark Maynard: 19:23

Right, because you know they're going to be nice to you, right, exactly, nice to the host, right, exactly, yeah, yeah, or the Porter, or whatever, yeah, that's, that's, that's, yeah, that's awesome, the. So you know the interviewing process and the and the sourcing process and all of that. It starts long before these. They've ever interacted with your um, you know, with your organization, and I think, um. So, yes, it's 90 days post hire, but it's, it's really. You know how long is it before that? You know how, how, how are you handling um, you know calling people back if they?

Mark Maynard: 20:01

are you know, if they applied online, do you have a process for declining or accepting their application? You know and these are the things that are seemingly boring or, you know, maybe like real minutia, but these are the things. I'm actually working with a client right now where we're going through their flow and they're realizing that there's like a five or six day lag period between the time a person submits their application online and the time that person gets any sort of response. Yeah, it's too long. I mean, they may as well just be like never, you know, because this is someone who's looking for a job. They're maybe a high school or a college student, they've got rent due in three weeks and they're going to go with whoever gets back to them first.

Christin Marvin: 20:47

Yeah, I've done some writing on this because it really like when I first started my company, it was really pissing me off because I was working with clients through career transition and I had had a couple of people come to me and say I have applied for a hundred jobs and I've only heard back from one person and I just was so infuriated because I really wanted those companies to understand it's just what the interviewee experience is like and put as much emphasis into that as they do their guest experience. And I think what they're losing sight of is that even though you don't hire somebody, that person you can turn them into a guest. They're applying for your company for a reason. So I love that you focused on that part of the transition.

Mark Maynard: 21:31

It's interesting One of my clients is a restaurant group based in Scotland called Buzzworks and they actually have that, that said, where they actually say we don't think of them as applicants, we think of them as future guests, which I think is great, you know, because they're they understand that they're only going to be hiring, you know, maybe 25% of the people who apply. So that means that's 75% of those people are future guests.

Christin Marvin: 21:55

Totally, totally so. So, once you get through the interview process, what does that, that transition period, look like?

Mark Maynard: 22:01

Right. So I think this is where, real again, I'll I'll I'll just keep using the word intentional. So I think this is where, again, I'll just keep using the word intentional, so I'll try to edit myself. But clearly, communicating what to expect at every step of the process is really important, and that goes with the applicant, or you know the candidate in this case, and the team case and the team, and so you know who is greeting the person on their first trail. You know, if it's a trailing sort of situation where they're coming in and they might be having three days of training before they're officially, you know, in the tip pool or that kind of thing, you know is the manager greeting them?

Mark Maynard: 22:45

You know, at a bunch of the businesses that I was responsible for, it had to be the manager to at least say hello to them, maybe. You know, obviously the manager can't be standing at the door like a stalker, but it was always the sort of thing where the manager made an impression early on. You know, like in the first few minutes early on. You know, like in the first few minutes, and then you know who are you selecting to be their trainer for the day. You know you can't just wing. That you know, and you want to make sure there's a cultural fit in addition to a technical fit. You know you want to make sure this person knows what they're doing but also that they believe in what you're doing. And you know, I've seen it happen and it's you know. You know I've I've seen it happen and it's you know we're just like oh, can you just trail with Jane? She's never. She's worked here for a week but she's going to be fine.

Christin Marvin: 23:35

You know, like yeah, it is bad. It is bad. I love that you're. We're getting getting like really really really nitty gritty on this and I want, and I'm just like amazed and I wish I would have been able to incorporate all these little touches into my plans. But I want to take a step back for a second and go a little bit bigger picture, because you just said something that really reminded me. Let's let's go back to why 90 days and what's the purpose of a 90 day plan.

Mark Maynard: 24:04

So there are two. I think there's well, there's multiple purposes. First of all, in the first few weeks it's just mayhem, you know, you don't know what you're doing and and you're you're like a transplant. You know where you may not get accepted, you know. And so there's the first few weeks, which is, you know, just okay, try to see if this person can show up to work on time. You know, in New York City, you know the subway system, you know a lot of people are traveling for an hour on several different train lines to get here, you know. So they need to test out their commute. You know things like that. I'm sure that happens. You know, if you're in Atlanta right, the worst traffic, you know. Or LA, you know, if you're taking, you have to make sure is this a 30 minute commute or a 45 minute commute? You know.

Mark Maynard: 24:53

So things like that the first, the first few weeks are, are kind of tough.

Mark Maynard: 25:00

That also tends to be sort of like maybe 75% training, 25% real work, and then kind of the next month is more like 75% real work, 25% training, and I think really, once you get to day 60, you know whether that person is going to be working out. And so for me, that third month is when you really invest a lot of extra time in their sort of the X factor things, those 201 or 301 level classes that they can sort of say, okay, I know how to do the basics of my job, I can describe everything, or I can cook everything, or I've learned if I'm a manager right, I've learned those basic processes, I've cut my closing time down by 25%. And then that third month is when you're really diving deep into the culture and the meaning of your work, and to me that's the time where you as a leader still have the opportunity to make an impact on this person's direction and on their potential, and I think that's when they decide when they want to stay as well.

Christin Marvin: 26:25

Yeah, it's interesting. I you know when I would create a 30, 60, 90 day plan for our managers, whether they were internal or external, right Cause you're going through a transition, whether you're a brand new employee or someone being promoted right from within the first 30 days, we're all about just being a sponge and and just learning the culture right and working side by side with the team and just soaking up as much knowledge as you can. And when I've gone through some transitions and started creating these plans, I read the first 90 days by Michael Watkins.

Christin Marvin: 27:01

I've read it four times no exaggeration and I love that he talks about not expecting somebody new to create value to your company until at least 90 days. I love that, and you had mentioned that that once they get towards the end, then they can really start applying that knowledge and jumping in and then showing that they're hungry and that they want to grow and learn and start making a positive impact on the company. Yeah, hey there, listeners. Before we jump back into today's episode, let's shine a light on a pressing issue in the restaurant industry employee retention. If you're grappling with the challenges of keeping a solid team together, you're not alone.

Christin Marvin: 27:41

I would like to extend an invitation for a quick 15-minute discovery call to discuss your specific situation and explore strategies to boost restaurant retention. Your team is the heart of your business and retaining great talent is crucial for your mental and physical health, as well as the health of your business. Visit my website at kristinmarvincom slash contact to schedule your call. Let's collaborate to enhance your retention strategies and create an environment where your team thrives. Now back to the show. Thanks for tuning in and I'm eager to connect with you soon.

Mark Maynard: 28:21

And one of the things that our job as leaders is is to tell people that it's okay for them to not make that impact. I used to, you know, jokingly say people say what does success look like for me? You know, I'm like, if you can show up for your first 20 shifts, I'll be impressed, you know, because, you know, going back to some of those, you know some of those other variables, you know, um, and they'd be like, oh, really, that's. I'm like, no, well, you're still going to get quizzed, you're still going to do this, but like, just be, just like, learn it. You're going to feel like you're in everyone's way and you will be in everyone's way, but they were there a year ago or five years ago and if, if we're, we are doing a good job, we're going to make you feel comfortable and at least welcome and we should be teaching you as well. Yeah, and one of my favorite things in that actually I think it's in that book where it's early wins, where he talks about like we need to give ourselves opportunities for little victories where a task isn't so hard, for little victories where a task isn't so hard but we can feel good that we just sort of click, check something off our list, our to-do list, and so if you put too many sort of high thinking or high level things too early, it's easy to crush people's soul Because if they have applied for a job with you or they've started a new job, you don't know what else is going on in their life.

Mark Maynard: 29:49

They might've just graduated, they might've just gotten divorced, they might've just had a kid and they need more money, like you don't know. And so they're just, they're probably juggling or dealing with a whole lot of other change way beyond this new job.

Christin Marvin: 30:02

Yeah, it's a. That's a great point. And, again, something that Michael talks about in the book, right, is they're not just transitioning into a new role, they're transitioning every part of their life, right? And when I worked at Snooze, this was really eye-opening for me because people entering the brunch world for the first time and I struggled with this like getting up at 4, 4.30 or 3.30 or 4 or 4.30, right in the morning and trying to be on was really really difficult.

Christin Marvin: 30:28

And so we would constantly check in with people, especially if they were late. You'd give somebody one or two times over the first couple of weeks because you understood that getting up that early was just a huge adjustment. But just checking in with them on, like how's this fitting in with your home life? Because I would come home from snooze and eat dinner and go to bed at seven o'clock and my husband go what's the matter with you? Right, he's staying up to 10 or 11 o'clock at night, and those checking in on those transitions are really important for families and home life. How did you, how did you handle that?

Mark Maynard: 31:03

You know, a lot of it was on a case byby-case basis, and I think that's something where I think it's really special if a more senior leader can have that conversation, because actually this is a little something I'll, especially early on, that I'll kind of go through as a GM or as a managing partner. What I would do is I would check in, because at a certain point I stopped really being involved with interviewing, which was literally the last thing that I gave up when I became a director of operations over multiple places. It was really hard for me to give up, but what I did is I relied on the GMs or the managers to tell me how new people were doing. And what I would do is I would say, let's say you were my GM and we had a new server or bartender. I would go up to them and say, oh, kristen tells me you've really aced those recipes. That's great. And they'd be like, oh, really, that's amazing that you know that. I'm like, yeah, because my job is to make you look better as that person's supervisor.

Mark Maynard: 32:10

But then I would be like, hey, you got a minute. And they'd be like, sure, and then I would sit down and I would ask some of those questions that you just asked. So how's it going? How's the commute over here to 11th Avenue? We're like a very hard place to get to, or is this what you were expecting? How's the pay compared to what you were expecting? Is this what you were expecting? How's the pay compared to what you were expecting? How are the hours?

Mark Maynard: 32:28

And it was just a way for me to get a little sniff test on how they were doing, and again it was me testing our systems, because a lot of times the new person, they don't get the best schedule right and the best quote unquote could mean something different to different people. But as I think more GMs, especially GMs and directors of operation, they need to do fewer of those boring tasks and more of those tasks, because that's what gave me fuel, to be able to talk to the new bartender or to talk to the new cook. That that sort of filled my tank, um, and I know it made an impact on them. You know, oh, wow, this guy, who I only see every once in a while, came over and he knew about me and that's so cool. He seems interested in what I'm doing and I think, and I was, and it's like one of these virtuous cycles where and then he, this person, then becomes a better employee for the GM, and or that's the hope anyway- yeah, I love that.

Christin Marvin: 33:31

Would you speak a little bit to how you handled creating a 90 day plan for internal promotes in management?

Mark Maynard: 33:40

Yeah, and interestingly, that could be even more difficult because you know what that person is good at and they're going to always go back to their comfort zone.

Mark Maynard: 33:58

And one thing that I I mean I don't know if it was really any different, except that it could be a little bit more organic and what I mean by that is to say, if this happens, if you already know the culture and you know a lot of the basics, we could say you know, we don't need to do this eight hours a day. We don't need to do this eight hours a day. We can say let's just do two hours a day of something where, like what we would do if someone was a server who was then becoming a manager, let's just say we'd say you can still do your server shift because we haven't found a replacement for you yet. But then we'll figure out a way to make this legal, which of course has to be where you then close the restaurant with the manager, um, and you learn the closing procedures you know, so we would do things like that whenever we could, because there's this time where you know you, you realize that there's a demand for this position.

Mark Maynard: 34:56

You've found someone inside but you haven't replaced them yet and it kind of be silly to you know, it's the old cut off your nose to spite your face. It's like, yeah, well, she wants to be a manager and we've hired her to be a manager, but we have four holes in the server schedule. That said, I still think you need a timeline, meaning like you can't be like, oh, this goes on forever. You know that that doesn't solve the problem.

Mark Maynard: 35:18

Yeah, that was a little more technical, sort of culturally and sort of philosophically, one of the biggest things that I do is spend time with those managers, those new managers, and say what got you here won't get you there. And you might be the best technician, you might know the best, most about wine, or you might know the most about food, but now the things that you are judged on for your success are not your wine and food knowledge, you know. They're more about how you lead teams, how you inspire others, how you teach people, how you solve problems, how you, you know, improve the guest experience more globally, not just I was always the best server, you know, and so those are the things that I think, those softer skills that we we have to focus on, because otherwise they just believe that they'll just use their knowledge all the time and and that's like that won't really help the business move forward at all.

Christin Marvin: 36:23

Yeah, and it's interesting, right, they don't. And that's like that won't really help the business move forward at all. Yeah, and it's interesting, right, they don't. When you say, like you know that they have to figure out how to inspire the team and show up, like they don't even know what that means, right, like they don't know how to lead and so I've found it.

Christin Marvin: 36:36

So it's so different, but it's very similar to right. If you're promoting somebody within their own location, you have to work with them on how do you want to show up differently for this team now? Right, because the entire relationship is going to change and when they're, you know, I think it's so much easier to promote somebody you know within but at a different location. Right, because they're already walking in with all of that knowledge, they get the culture, they can walk right in immediately and start, you know, managing the bottlenecks and working with the team and answering the questions, and so the confidence is already there which is so important to this or their success. But, yeah, really, really working with them on figuring out, like, what is your leadership style?

Christin Marvin: 37:18

Let's define it, you know, and a lot of times they don't know and it's like look around at who's around you. What do you want to pull from them?

Mark Maynard: 37:24

Right, that's one of my favorites is tell me about a leader you admire.

Christin Marvin: 37:30

Yeah, I do that a lot in leadership workshops. I've just came back from Denver and we went around the room and everybody told stories of a leader that had been really impactful in their life. We made a list of all those characteristics. They picked the top five and then we went through. What do you need to do to show up to be this leader?

Mark Maynard: 37:53

And then what are the action items behind that and the commitment? So that's a really fun exercise. Yeah, I remember one person who I promoted from one manager up to a more senior manager, promoted from one manager up to a more senior manager, and she was really struggling with pre-mill lineups and just rambling on and and and you know. So we ended up talking about that and she's like well, mark, you're just so natural at it and I was like wait, I never even told her that I rehearse you know, like I and I realized this is years ago where I rehearse.

Mark Maynard: 38:23

You know, like I and I realized, I mean, this is years ago where I was like, oh my God, I didn't tell her how to do it, I didn't teach her how to do a good lineup, you know, and I'm like, oh, I always go in with three points. I want one thing to be like squishy I always use that term, you know, I wanted a squishy thing, I wanted a technical thing, I wanted a financial thing, and then I always end on a, on a happy thing, you know, and she was like, oh my God, I've been listening to you for a year and I never realized you did that. I'm like, well, what did you think of the line? She's like they're so good. And I was like, oh, there you go. You know, you don't have to know you lineup before.

Christin Marvin: 39:01

Yeah, yeah, I love that. There was a story I told I had Michael Sesnick on the show early on and so he was really impactful for me. He was the GM at the Broadmoor when I became an AGM for the first time in my early 20s and he really developed me and took me under his wing and I remember he was teaching me how to do lineup and we same thing. He had very specific topics that he would cover, but I remember how just nervous I was and we were all seated together in the dining room. You know it was just a very comfortable environment and our team was amazing and I had, you know, I had helped open the restaurant. So the bonds that are formed with that right Within that time is great. But I told him he didn't remember the story, but I told him that one of my first lineups, like he would always make me, make me go make him a cappuccino before lineup.

Christin Marvin: 39:56

I don't know if he did that for you and I thought at the time he was just helping me perfect my craft, but I think I was just, you know, serving him. And so, anyway, I sat down and I started the lineup and he just leaned right into me and started like screaming like a fanatic at a football game in my ear, like whoo, just humiliating me in front of the team and he was like I don't know why I did that.

Christin Marvin: 40:17

That sounds so cruel, but I told him thank you because it really helped me. Just not take myself so seriously. Have some fun, you know. So anyway, the goofy, the squishy stuff comes into play, you know.

Mark Maynard: 40:30

Yeah, it does, it does. And you know the other thing is right, I mean education. But actually I'm glad you you know we are talking about the first 90 days. But imagine you're a new employee and you now come into this place where they seem to have their act together Family meal is great, let's say. You then do a great lineup where, like, people seem to be engaged and inspired.

Mark Maynard: 40:54

You know you've been there 10 days or a week and then you know you taste some food or you taste something to drink, and like when you think about how much you can pack into that one 20-minute meeting or whatever it is in each restaurant 10 minutes sometimes and then you see that over the course, or you experience that over the course of your first couple of weeks, that's the stuff that hooked me.

Mark Maynard: 41:17

That's what hooked me, because I was like, wow, I've tasted 10 different wines in my first two weeks, cause that was the thing at Union Square Cafe, every day, without fail, we tasted at least one wine at Larno and guess what? I then took that on to Blue Smoke, where we tended to do more beer and whiskey, and then Porchlight, you know many, many years later, where we always did a cocktail or a whiskey, or I mean a spirit, um, but what an incredible impression. Because I didn't know anything about that stuff, you know, and so I could organically just learn without having to raise my hand and without having to tell the difference between Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc or whatever. Having to raise my hand, and without having to tell the difference between Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc or whatever, I could just listen to people and be a sponge for as long as until, eventually, someone was like okay, it's been a few weeks, we're going to start calling on this new guy, you know, yeah.

Christin Marvin: 42:14

It's such a fun way for continued learning and development. Though for restaurants that have been open for a long time that say I don't know what to teach my team, I feel like a broken record, right? I guarantee you that there are menu items that some servers and bartenders and managers just steer away from right. And if you can taste and same thing like wines, cocktails, beers, whatever, it is right. If you can pick one item a day and you've got a total of 50 or 100 things on your menu, they're never going to get old, right? It's going to help re-inspire your team. It's going to give them new ideas, new perspective. It's such a fun way, an easy way and low cost way to develop the team.

Mark Maynard: 42:52

Yeah, and you know. So my thing is, one of my things that I always say is training is marketing, and like the best marketing ever, you know, to get your team to your point. You know, to get, to get your team engaged. I mean, think about what we do for a living. You know we create things that make people happy. Like it's, it's so simple and if you can, and most of what we do is pretty cool, you know, like it's whether you think of it as a theater part or the creative like we're, we're.

Mark Maynard: 43:27

You know we're feeding people. You know that's a very intimate experience. You know we're getting people drunk. Maybe we'll. You know, like I'm not. You know, whatever you pick, you know we're, we're creating this experience. That's transformational, whatever you want to call it. You can latch onto a thing and say, wow, I'm a part of that. Like we're bringing people together. You know, like that's what you know. I mean the word restaurant means to restore, so like, of course, we're restoring people, you know. And so to learn how to do that behind the scenes, it's probably like you know, working in the backstage of a theater where you're like, oh, that's how they make that person fly. You know, like that's pretty cool.

Christin Marvin: 44:08

Yeah, I love that. Did you craft a 30, 60, 90 day plan that was on paper for all of your managers coming in?

Mark Maynard: 44:19

I would say that we did eventually yes, years ago, no, we didn't, but more recently in the past, like 10 or 15 years. That we did eventually. Yes, I mean years ago, no, we didn't, but more recently in the past, like 10 or 15 years, we did.

Christin Marvin: 44:28

Yeah, I didn't learn how to do that until I was a regional.

Christin Marvin: 44:31

And my boss had asked me at the time you know what's your 30, 60, 90 day plan for this manager? And I was like I don't even know what you're talking about. So I went and figured out what that was about and, for anybody listening, if you would love a sample of something like that, just come to my website at kristenmarvincom, slash contact and let me know that you listened to this episode and you want an example of a 90-day plan. I'd be more than happy to either create one with you or send you one. But I found that when we presented those to the managers day one and said here's what the next 90 days is going to look like for you.

Christin Marvin: 45:05

We're going to check in on this. This is our responsibility, but it's also your responsibility to own this.

Mark Maynard: 45:11

Right.

Christin Marvin: 45:12

They were like oh, thank you so much. Was that your experience as well?

Mark Maynard: 45:17

Yeah, it really is, because people, if you're hiring the right people, they want to figure out how this new thing fits into their life, kind of like you were talking about the multiple transitions, and some of those things are also aspirational things. So, for example, as a director of operations, you might think, oh, they have to take these three classes at the home office. I'm just making that up, you know, and that's a burden. But then if you say, well, no, the beauty of this is that they're going to have to go to our regional office and there's going to be other people who are in the same stage, they're in their week six or they're in their week eight, and this manager at restaurant X is going to meet the new sous chef at restaurant Y, and it's a way to create community while you're learning about something that is, you know, maybe legally required or, you know, is an interesting, you know the story of your company or something like that, and those opportunities to meet other people who are traveling along a similar path.

Mark Maynard: 46:23

That's the marketing part of it, because then that person's like oh, next time you're in my restaurant, let me know and I'll send you out an appetizer. I don't know, you know that kind of thing which makes it really special, and those are the things that keep people there. You know we talk about employee engagement so much in our industry, but that's the way you engage your employees. It's not just about another 50 cents per hour or another thousand dollars of salary which, of course, is never a bad thing but it's a way to say wow, there's a lot of cool people who work at this company too.

Christin Marvin: 46:55

Yeah, a hundred percent, and it's interesting. You just had me question did you create these transitional plans from day one it sounds like from day one or when you were hiring people? I typically started them when people got out of training.

Mark Maynard: 47:11

Well, it depended a manager, we would, a manager we would do from what I call day zero, which is paperwork. You know, day zero is paperwork Um and then you know so, like day one might be, you know, you have to watch. You know, cause, like in New York state, you have to watch the anti-sexual harassment thing within your first X number of days, you know. So that would be front loaded Um and then, but you know, in week six it might be spend the morning um in the accounting team office to learn about forecasting. You know, but you don't really want to do that in week one. You know you have other things to learn um with uh, with other, with line employees.

Mark Maynard: 47:55

We didn't really have a 36 90 day program. It was more like we would have a check-in, which is because really, once they finished their training they would have the job, and then there might be like monthly training classes that they would have to attend, but everyone would need to attend those and then after 36 and 90 days they would meet with the GM or the sous chef just to discuss, you know, kind of a real formal way to be like, hey, how's it working out? What can we do for you? Do you have any questions. And that was really if you do work at a company that has an human resources department. I think that was always one of the most sort of special relationships that I liked as an operator is to have the human resources department be sort of actively involved way beyond just taxes and you know compensation and things like that Absolutely.

Christin Marvin: 48:48

What's the one biggest mistake that you see new managers coming into a company?

Mark Maynard: 48:52

Trying to do too much? Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, trying to trying to impress people and and that's why I think it's really important for the leadership you know that person's boss to sort of give them a free pass for the first you know few weeks and say if you do nothing else, build strong relationships. That's all I want you to do. Yeah, a hundred percent. Get to know people. You know what I'm saying without saying it is don't be a jerk, don't be a know-it-all. I don't care where you used to work, I don't care how many Michelin stars you had or beard awards, I don't really care. You're here now. Just build relationships. Learn what we're all about.

Christin Marvin: 49:30

Yeah, there's no bigger turnoff than somebody that's not curious about your culture, your people, your systems or the why behind what you're doing. And I agree, a big part of our 30-day plan was especially at a GM level or regional level. Don't come in and implement anything yet. Let's just discover and just be there.

Mark Maynard: 49:51

But they need A permission to do that and B they need the support and the place is on fire. They may have no choice but to act in a way that you don't think is right, but they don't have any other way to act because that's all they knew from the last place.

Christin Marvin: 50:11

Yeah, absolutely Well, Mark, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for having this conversation. I know we had talked before we jumped on about the importance of the importance of 90 days, 90 day transitions for opening restaurants, and I would love to have you come back on so we can talk about that all day long as well Openings.

Mark Maynard: 50:28

openings are a whole other animal right. It's critical. Yeah, I've gone through more of like a beast.

Christin Marvin: 50:33

There's 13. Yeah, I always told my husband I've done 13 openings and I would always say to him I need 90 days, babe, Like got to give me 90 days and then I'll see you and then 90 days of recovery after that. And then plan a vacation, please.

Mark Maynard: 50:46

Yeah, for sure?

Christin Marvin: 50:47

Well, let's let people know how they can get ahold of you.

Mark Maynard: 50:52

Absolutely so. On LinkedIn, I'm Mark Maynard and my website is maynardconsulting. net. That's really the best way to get in touch with me.

Christin Marvin: 51:03

I love it and you are just putting out some really awesome leadership content on LinkedIn, so everybody go check that out for sure. I always enjoy that. All right, everybody. Thank you, appreciate it. Be sure to share this podcast with any leaders you know in the restaurant industry and follow me on LinkedIn at Christin-Marvin. Thanks everybody, we'll talk to you next week.